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Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

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Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#61
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the UK government introduced zero rights employment just few days ago and that would be totally legal here.

As someone not from the UK: What is zero rights employment, and how is it different than before?

It's not a special employment status. As a contractor in the UK you have fewer rights (pensions, notice periods, unfair dismissal, etc.) than an employee, but used to have not-inconsiderable tax benefits to trade off against this.

Thanks to HMRC reforms known as IR35, a lot of contractors are now considered akin to "disguised employees" and taxed as such - thus being taxed like an employee without the requisite legal benefits.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#62

That would be totally illegal in Germany, and most of the EU. Not only the employee tracking and forcing them to install anything on their private devices, but also the data collection and not disclosing what is collected, where, and how long, and not implementing an automatic deletion.

Here in the UK government introduced zero rights employment just few days ago and that would be totally legal here.

The UK has aspirations to be American, see: leaving the EU, deregulation and attempts to dismantle the NHS.

Sadly the UK are not the only European country with these types of aspirations. My best guess is that there are tightening relationships between the tops of the political and business classes in many countries. And they are beginning to realize they can engage in unmonitored corruption while running disinformation campaigns to cover their tracks. And then running for re-election on populist rhetoric to maintain the appearance that they are the opposite of their actual policies.

This happening on both the left and the right. Though I would say on the right the problem is considerably worse (this may just be my personal political bias, take it for what you will). The few people that are paying attention to this kind of misbehavior are the extremely informed. Who of course are a minority. Society is stratified across the globe and the very poor and poorly educated are being taken advantage of.

Most politicians don't believe they are engaging in corruption. But there are a limited number of government contracts to go around, the contracts are increasingly valuable, and on the demand side there are a growing number of humans and companies. At some point you might have half a dozen or even dozens of "qualified" looking applications for a government contract. And the procurement people within any given government usually end up picking between the many possible qualified looking applicants by the fact that someone has a social tie to the inside.

The only possible solution I can think of is accepting some type of randomization in the assignment of government contracts. Because proximity to power is way too important right now. And the politicians don't feel like they are engaging in corruptions they believe they are giving their friends who have risen through the meritocracy a deserved opportunity. There is some truth to this but the problem is their friends aren't the only people who have earned similar opportunities.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#63

Is there any scientific evidence that this kind of excessive cleaning had any impact on COVID? What was the cost-benefit-analysis, how many years of life were saved per $, and how does that compare to other health interventions? If we just banned junk food at these schools, but let COVID run rampant (the number of children and teenagers dead from COVID is essentially statistical noise), would we have improved health…

Measures taken in schools are/were not to save lives of kids (who die in 0.0001% of cases). They are to prevent kids catching it and infecting teachers and grandparents at home.

This latter risk is not hypothetical - anecdotally my kid's primary school had one teacher die (in their early 50s), and in more general terms, school re-openings after lockdowns reliably seem to lead to spikes in deaths in elderly a month later.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#65

We need to stop building a world without trust. Always checking, ensuring, surveilling (,mining on a blockchain), this is anti-human and will only lead to unhappiness, burnout, depression. It's no way to live unless we want to be like the Borg eventually.

I had a team of 10, two of them are remote, we recruted a third person, we work 40 hours a week, usually more or less flexible. We have recruted another person, after 6 month of work with him i have noticed some strange delays, like take too much time to respond etc, we work in pretty much relaxed environement so it was not visible very much. After a quick search i have found his freelance account and proposed him to…

Does he get his work done? Is he providing value? If yes, don’t worry about it.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#66

We need to stop building a world without trust. Always checking, ensuring, surveilling (,mining on a blockchain), this is anti-human and will only lead to unhappiness, burnout, depression. It's no way to live unless we want to be like the Borg eventually.

I had a team of 10, two of them are remote, we recruted a third person, we work 40 hours a week, usually more or less flexible. We have recruted another person, after 6 month of work with him i have noticed some strange delays, like take too much time to respond etc, we work in pretty much relaxed environement so it was not visible very much. After a quick search i have found his freelance account and proposed him to…

Does he still get his work done? Not far behind others?

Maybe you pay him too little.

Maybe you should offer him additional contract pay. More he does, more he gets paid.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#67
When I started my last job (decently large corp) there was a long onboarding session for mobile device setup. Email, Skype, a dozen other internal apps, 2FA authenticator, SSO, device profiles, remote locking/erase, certificates — the whole deal. There was even some weird internal app store. I asked them where I could get my company phone to set up all this, and they replied no, you just use your personal phone. I have never been more amused/horrified than at that moment.

I eventually escalated a few levels and was able to get them to buy me one, but I was also presumably the first person who asked so strongly.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#68

Is there any scientific evidence that this kind of excessive cleaning had any impact on COVID? What was the cost-benefit-analysis, how many years of life were saved per $, and how does that compare to other health interventions? If we just banned junk food at these schools, but let COVID run rampant (the number of children and teenagers dead from COVID is essentially statistical noise), would we have improved health…

So your reaction to this article is to assume that she was actually guilty of slacking off, and that was the reason for her not installing the application. All that because she had a "bullshit" job with poor cost-benefit. This is surreal.

We should all be concerned, as employees and as citizens, of companies asking their staff to install monitoring applications (especially on their personal devices). These applications are not open-source, there is no way to audit what they do with the collected data. Worse, there is nothing preventing them from changing their collection, sharing, storage practices, and those employees would be unable to remove the said application because they would be fired.

What a sad world we live in, where employees are assumed to be slacking off (like you just did with your extremely caricatural comment) if they are not tracked. The relationship should be built on trust, and common interest, not fear.

Re: Employee refuses to download app that monitors location, says it got her fired

#69

That would be totally illegal in Germany, and most of the EU. Not only the employee tracking and forcing them to install anything on their private devices, but also the data collection and not disclosing what is collected, where, and how long, and not implementing an automatic deletion.

Here in the UK government introduced zero rights employment just few days ago and that would be totally legal here.

This user is referring to IR35. It's been given the nickname "No Rights Employment" by those affected by it.
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