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Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

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Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#61

Post by yoz-y »

nabla9 wrote: post #21
burlesona wrote: post #5

Honestly, people need to get over HyperCard. Yes it was cool, but there’s no conspiracy behind its demise. It died because the World Wide Web accomplished basically the same thing, not initially as elegantly or powerfully, but open and universal (and today, very much more capable than HyperCard was). HyperCard usage declined and Apple gave up on it. It’s not complicated.

> World Wide Web accomplished basically the same thing, This is incorrect and I'm convinced that you agree after you think it little more. HyperCard was tool for non-programmers. Like spreadsheet. Web is not alternative to HyperCard. You have to learn web programming to do anything. We should not get over it, but create replacement or recreate it.

> We should not get over it, but create replacement or recreate it.

I feel that enough people complain about it not existing and then quickly proceed to not recreating it. If there was market for this, it would exist.

I've never used Hyper Card, but I guess that for prototyping of 'real software', programs like InVision work. Most of the trivial programs you could create with HyperCard (from the examples shown) can be recreated in other software (like excel or soulver) or already exist.

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#62

Post by jchw »

tombert wrote: post #38

Obviously not exactly the same, but a lot of the magic here is something I felt with Macromedia Flash MX back in the day. I had been (at the time) unsuccessful getting a C++ with OpenGL project working, but when I had my pirated copy of Flash, I was very quickly able to make interactive stuff. I never made anything even close to "commercial-ready", but I had a lot of fun doing it. It felt like within a day or two, yo…

What about Adobe Animate? Granted, I haven’t actually tried, but my understanding is that it is like Flash but targeting the modern web.

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#63

Post by [deleted] »

masoodkamandy wrote: post #37

Pretty disappointed with the use of autistic as an insult. Really unnecessary and offensive. I was a lover of hypercard. It seemed to rekindle some if the magic of AppleSoft BASIC when I moved from the Apple II to the Mac in elementary school. I remember being surprised at how difficult it was to program a Mac compared to an Apple II until I found HyperCard. It seemed full of possibility.

[deleted]

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#64

Post by seanalltogether »

tombert wrote: post #38

Obviously not exactly the same, but a lot of the magic here is something I felt with Macromedia Flash MX back in the day. I had been (at the time) unsuccessful getting a C++ with OpenGL project working, but when I had my pirated copy of Flash, I was very quickly able to make interactive stuff. I never made anything even close to "commercial-ready", but I had a lot of fun doing it. It felt like within a day or two, yo…

Flash was the perfect tool for someone to go from absolute beginner to fairly proficient developer. You could pick up the tool and the very first thing you could do was draw shapes, or maybe even a robot. Then you figured out you could animate them along a timeline, so now you can make the legs of your robot move from one side of the screen to another. Then you realized each shape is a discrete object, and you can attach scripts to that object to fire a laser across the screen, then...

As much as I appreciated having more advanced tools like Unity later in my career, you can't beat the self discovery that was possible with Flash.

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#65

Post by quonn »

gfxgirl wrote: post #52
twobitshifter wrote: post #8

I liked seeing the examples of creating a calculator in HyperCard, but I don’t think that Steve Jobs killed it because it was some existential threat to Apple’s profits. Apple gives away its software for free when you buy a Mac, and to my knowledge they don’t make a large fraction of money on selling software licenses. It’s also completely possible to run your own code today on a Mac, so we would have to believe that…

> Apple gives away its software for free when you buy a Mac, Correction: Apple charges a premium for their computers because that premium pays for all the software packages they include with it. XCode, Keynote, Pages, Numbers, etc... None of that is included in Windows but I can buy a fully usable by most people Windows laptop for $299 vs the cheapest Mac laptop is $999. Of course some of that $700 difference is that…

It‘s a nice theory, but impossible to prove. I‘d like to imagine the difference is because Apple makes a very nice profit, unlike many others.

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#66

Post by captaincurrie »

masoodkamandy wrote: post #37

Pretty disappointed with the use of autistic as an insult. Really unnecessary and offensive. I was a lover of hypercard. It seemed to rekindle some if the magic of AppleSoft BASIC when I moved from the Apple II to the Mac in elementary school. I remember being surprised at how difficult it was to program a Mac compared to an Apple II until I found HyperCard. It seemed full of possibility.

>Pretty disappointed with the use of autistic as an insult. Really unnecessary and offensive.

wahhhh

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#67

Post by mpweiher »

mumblemumble wrote: post #39
burlesona wrote: post #5

Honestly, people need to get over HyperCard. Yes it was cool, but there’s no conspiracy behind its demise. It died because the World Wide Web accomplished basically the same thing, not initially as elegantly or powerfully, but open and universal (and today, very much more capable than HyperCard was). HyperCard usage declined and Apple gave up on it. It’s not complicated.

I think that TFA said it well, if brusquely: > And if you think that XCode, Python, Processing, or the shit soup of HTML/Javascript/CSS are any kind of substitute for HyperCard, then read this post again. The thing that made HyperCard great was that it wasn't very capable. Which made it approachable.

Sure, Xcode today isn't a substitute. But Xcode is a large step back from what NeXTstep had, at least when it comes to this kind of capability.

The standalone Interface Builder had palettes, which you could fill with custom objects. There were third party palettes that allowed non-programmers to click together and configure custom applications for specific domains.

There were palettes that extended the whole shebang with scripting languages so that you could also add custom logic in Interface Builder.

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#68

Post by betamaxthetape »

I've mentioned this several times on HN before, but I maintain a collection [1] of over 3,500 HyperCard stacks hosted by the Internet Archive. The great thing about modern technology is they're all emulated in-browser - just select the one you want and press start.

You've got silly little animations[2], sound samplers[3], choose-your-own adventure stories[4], reference guides[5] and teaching materials[6]. But there's so much more in the collection.

I thoroughly recommend that those unfamiliar with HyperCard have a browse of the collection and see what was made possible by this groundbreaking 1980s tool.

I'm always looking for more stacks for the collection - if anyone reading this has any (either already as digital files or on floppy disks), please do email me: HyperCardOnline@gmail.com

[1] https://archive.org/details/hypercardstacks

[2] https://archive.org/details/hypercard_computer_sind_doof

[3] https://archive.org/details/hypercard_cheapsequencersit

[4] https://archive.org/details/hypercard_inigo_gets_out

[5] https://archive.org/details/hypercard_macprinters-11

[6] https://archive.org/details/hypercard_usgs---teaching-earth-...

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#69

Post by gfxgirl »

quonn wrote: post #65
gfxgirl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple gives away its software for free when you buy a Mac, Correction: Apple charges a premium for their computers because that premium pays for all the software packages they include with it. XCode, Keynote, Pages, Numbers, etc... None of that is included in Windows but I can buy a fully usable by most people Windows laptop for $299 vs the cheapest Mac laptop is $999. Of course some of that $700 difference is that…

It‘s a nice theory, but impossible to prove. I‘d like to imagine the difference is because Apple makes a very nice profit, unlike many others.

The bigger point is it's not free. Otherwise you can claim any part of a Mac is free. You're paying $999 for an OS and getting a free machine. You're paying $999 for a keyboard that has a free computer attached to it. Etc..

no, you're paying $999 for the entire bundle of features that come with your Mac. That includes the software. It's not free any more than any other part of it is free.

Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)

#70

Post by II2II »

tombert wrote: post #38

Obviously not exactly the same, but a lot of the magic here is something I felt with Macromedia Flash MX back in the day. I had been (at the time) unsuccessful getting a C++ with OpenGL project working, but when I had my pirated copy of Flash, I was very quickly able to make interactive stuff. I never made anything even close to "commercial-ready", but I had a lot of fun doing it. It felt like within a day or two, yo…

I suspect that there is a sweet spot for learning and teaching programming, and it typically happens soon after a new technology emerges. There is a lot of excitement, many low-hanging fruit, and the tools tend to be easier to work with. As time goes on, there is less motivation since the excitement has diminished and there are fewer unique contributions to make. More important though, the tools become more complex since their development has to address the needs of larger projects with more specific needs.

I have seen this pattern repeat several times over in my life: programming personal computers with BASIC in the 1980's and web development in the late 1990's are the most obvious examples. HyperCard sort of fits in between since it was one of the more accessible GUI development tools, though it was by no means the only one.

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