I'm a little surprised that nobody is mentioning that any kind of blockchain payment system creates a permanent, public ledger. One US Attorney called Bitcoin's blockchain "prosecution futures" as it's only a matter of time before the sender/receiver addresses for transactions are correlated with unique individuals. This permanent, public record of a transaction between a Signal account and another user or a service flies in the face or Signal's presumed goal of completely private e2ee communication.
Et Tu, Signal?
61–70 of 459 posts
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#62This article mirrors my feelings toward this announcement well. I spent a significant amount of time trying out different messaging apps and convincing my friends and family to move over from Telegram and WhatsApp. I used my reputation and their trust in my expertise.
The whole blockchain industry is just too mixed with scams that I feel comfortable to have my non-tech relatives dealing with it. It's enough that I have to educate them on 'investments' in random coins (it's gambling) and cure their FOMO regarding NFTs. Now the technology will be integrated into the messaging app that I endorsed, well-packed together with the smelly involvement of Moxie with the currency.
What now?
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#63I was recently pulled onto Signal by a non-techie who values his privacy. I talked to him about Matrix/Element and he had no idea what that was, but was very happy with Siganl. I must admit, the app is very nice. All I had to do was give it access to my contacts and bam, I am now able to chat with all my contacts. By comparison, Element is much more like a chat program than a phone messenger. It's good for "I want to…
I think Element is unable to do this since they have nobly chosen a federated protocol.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#64> of which the issuing organization controls 85% of the supply. [citation needed] > This token then floats on a shady offshore cryptocurrency exchange hiding in the Cayman Islands or the Bahamas, where users can buy and exchange the token. The token is wash traded back and forth by insiders [citation needed] > insiders are free to silently use information asymmetry to cash out on the influx of pumped hype-driven buys…
https://github.com/UkoeHB/Mechanics-of-MobileCoin
The protocol isn't based on mining, and they have a finite supply of 250m coins which they won't disclose the distribution of other than to try to assure everyone to not be concerned:
https://community.mobilecoin.foundation/t/mobilecoin-distrib...
They fact they can't even disclose coin distribution but Signal is already integrating it is both shocking and extremely concerning for the future of Signal. I seriously question what Moxie was thinking unless this is just a money grab for him.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#65I was recently pulled onto Signal by a non-techie who values his privacy. I talked to him about Matrix/Element and he had no idea what that was, but was very happy with Siganl. I must admit, the app is very nice. All I had to do was give it access to my contacts and bam, I am now able to chat with all my contacts. By comparison, Element is much more like a chat program than a phone messenger. It's good for "I want to…
I think you hit the nail on the head with "Element is much more like a chat program than a phone messenger". Me and a friend experimented chatting with Element (Riot at the time), and while it certainly "worked", the process of getting everything working was not something I would expect a non-programmer to be able to figure out. We had to finagle different keys across different computers and phones and it was fairly painful. Both of us are software engineers, so at some level we have fun figuring this stuff out, but I cannot see a universe where Element catches with the general public unless the process is as quick and painless as Signal.
I feel like Element works better as a competitor to Slack or IRC than as a competitor to Signal or Whatsapp.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#66I definitely agree with the article that it felt a bit like a betrayal. I've pushed some friends and family to use it over Telegram despite significant usability issue, and now I see that instead of implementing some IMO basic features like proper message sync and easy backup when you get a new phone, they prefer to implement a... micropayment system? Based on some niche altcoin which doesn't even exist on mainstream…
> easy backup when you get a new phone
I just recently got a new phone, and used the new feature to do this (uses wi-fi direct) and I have to say it seemed like it would be easy enough for non-techy users to use.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#67I have met Moxie and followed his work for over a decade. He is one of the most ethical people in the information security industry. I would suggest people put down their pitch forks and think this through carefully. I can’t imagine this was done lightly or without considering Signal’s core mission in a highly ethical context. There is a lot of anti-crypto sentiment these days. Does this announcement actually change the ethical or moral landscape for Signal, at all? Does it compromise Signals security as a messenger client?
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#68I definitely agree with the article that it felt a bit like a betrayal. I've pushed some friends and family to use it over Telegram despite significant usability issue, and now I see that instead of implementing some IMO basic features like proper message sync and easy backup when you get a new phone, they prefer to implement a... micropayment system? Based on some niche altcoin which doesn't even exist on mainstream…
Proper message sync is hardly possible with end-to-end encryption everyone so excited about (without fully understanding the implications of true secrecy). If you have e2ee and then sync messages via google drive (looking at you, Viber), you are kinda missing the point.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#69I'm a little surprised that nobody is mentioning that any kind of blockchain payment system creates a permanent, public ledger. One US Attorney called Bitcoin's blockchain "prosecution futures" as it's only a matter of time before the sender/receiver addresses for transactions are correlated with unique individuals. This permanent, public record of a transaction between a Signal account and another user or a service…
That’s true for a lot of crypto but not for something like monero which has an anonymous blockchain.
Re: Et Tu, Signal?
#70I'm baffled how tech-savvy people like the author are surprised when a seemingly free product suddenly introduce ways to monetize its service. There is no free lunch or to put it in another way, if you're not paying for the product, you are the product.
Free? I pay the Signal Foundation $3 per month.