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MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

mitadmissions.org

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Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#61

Post by nickysielicki »

> Students who have not already taken the SAT/ACT, and cannot find a forthcoming opportunity to do so safely are discouraged from taking the test, in order to protect their personal health, as well as the health of their family and community. We will not make any negative presumptions regarding academic preparation based solely on the absence of SAT/ACT scores, but will instead make the best, most informed decision we can by rigorously assessing other academic aspects of their application (such as grades, coursework, and other examinations).

This is getting ridiculous.

Imagine if your kid puts in the hours and hours of studying and pulls off a 35 on their ACT -- at a school like MIT, that's not enough (considered alone) to get in.

How are you and your kid going to feel when they give her spot to someone who didn't even submit a standardized test score?

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#62

Post by ghaff »

kansface wrote: post #37
pmiller2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know test prep courses are a thing, and that the wealthy are the primary consumers of them, right? Pretty much everything in the USA is pay to win.

Test prep has a more or less negligible effect size. Extra curriculars and paying someone to write your essay for you on the other hand are all about privilege.

I know the test prep industry is bigger today than it used to be- but I assume you can still just buy a test prep book(s) and study like I did.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#64

Post by floren »

ericmay wrote: post #36

One question on my mind (as someone who has a master's degree and engineering degree and has never taken the ACT/SAT) is how kids will go about showing pure intellectual merit? Like let's say you grow up ok but you can't really afford to join the ski club or for a tutor and maybe you work in the evenings but you crush the SAT/ACT because you're incredibly intelligent. How will universities like MIT take that into acc…

I did well on the SAT and ACT, but one problem is that it's just not enough. Parents who shove their kids into piano and tennis lessons since age 4, push them to run for student government and take petitions to the city council, whatever, those parents are also going to make their kids spend every evening studying for the SAT. They've also had tutors when they need it. How does Harvard tell the difference between "this kid did well because she's brilliant" vs "this kid got $10k worth of SAT prep classes"?

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#65

Post by beebmam »

I'd like to point out that there's an egalitarian approach to college admissions that I found interesting. Every single time I've brought it up with people, no matter their politics, they got angry about it, but I think it would be interesting to see it implemented and then compare the outcomes.

A lottery system of admissions, with a guarantee of admission to at least some universities. It's described here: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/admit-everybody/

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#66

Post by pooper »

austincheney wrote: post #23

So many university recruiters at that level just suggest a minimum application criteria after which a lottery is applied to select acceptable applicants. A truly randomized lottery would ensure no bias in student selection. If you have, let’s say, 3000 open positions and 15,000 applications of which all are academically qualified does it really matter who they pick for admission? It’s not like there is going to be an…

> valedictorians with 4.0 GPAs

Not trying to say you are wrong and not trying to claim any kind of authority as I have zero insider knowledge of college admissions process but just thinking out loud as a student, there can be a world of difference between an A from one teacher to an A from another teacher from the same school. Now if we extrapolate it across schools throughout the nation (we have not even gotten into international students), there is a wide gulf.

I like your solution though and this is probably very easily feasible without much protest assuming we reserve a small portion of the seats for donors and/or "legacy". Although, probably would be better just auctioning off those seats to the highest bidder now that I think about it. We will still treat everyone equally after students are admitted (and all auctions are nonrefundable) but we don't have to leave money on the table with an auction system for a small portion of the available seats.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#67

Post by kirykl »

nickysielicki wrote: post #61

> Students who have not already taken the SAT/ACT, and cannot find a forthcoming opportunity to do so safely are discouraged from taking the test, in order to protect their personal health, as well as the health of their family and community. We will not make any negative presumptions regarding academic preparation based solely on the absence of SAT/ACT scores, but will instead make the best, most informed decision w…

Loving that full scholarship at a competing school

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#68

Post by helen___keller »

ericmay wrote: post #36

One question on my mind (as someone who has a master's degree and engineering degree and has never taken the ACT/SAT) is how kids will go about showing pure intellectual merit? Like let's say you grow up ok but you can't really afford to join the ski club or for a tutor and maybe you work in the evenings but you crush the SAT/ACT because you're incredibly intelligent. How will universities like MIT take that into acc…

I would challenge if ACT/SAT is much about pure intellectual merit, considering how much one can boost their score with dedicated tutors and so on, but I digress. How to show intellectual merit other than standardized tests without relying on rich parents:

(a) Straight As

(b) (if applicable) Take all AP courses available at your high school

(c) (if applicable) Take additional college courses through community college dual enrollment or online school

(d) (if applicable) Join the math club, honors society, run for some kind of student council position, or other academics-oriented or leadership-oriented club role that doesn't require a hefty buy-in

b-d may or may not apply, depending on your school, school district, and state.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#69

Post by jcims »

mattnewton wrote: post #47
chrisseaton wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most high schools in the US don't have graduation exams. So how do people fail to graduate high-school?

They fail to complete a minimum number of classes with passing grades. If the bar sounds low and subjective, that’s because it often is, and as such I think it’s mostly useless for colleges looking to measure students against each other to choose who to admit.

My brother passed 12th grade but didn’t have enough English credits to get his diploma. I always thought that was a weird situation to be in, congrats you’re done with school.

Re: MIT suspending SAT/ACT requirement for next application cycle

#70

Post by [deleted] »

sudosysgen wrote: post #38
thaumasiotes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the one hand, it is ridiculous that one of the main metrics used in admissions is a glorified IQ test. On the other hand, it is ridiculous that we don't have a single commonly used standardized-exam that evaluates proficiency and expertise in the core curriculum. You don't like the use of an IQ test in school admissions, and you want to establish an IQ test instead?

Standardized national exams on proficiency in math, languages, science, etc... are very different from IQ tests and only somewhat correlated with IQ, being instead much more strongly correlated with consciensciousness, and generally how good of a student you are and will be.

[deleted]
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