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For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

timesofisrael.com

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Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#61

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

JPKab wrote: post #19

My father had a mid-life crisis in the mid 90's, and went from being an avid hunter and fisherman to being a hardcore animal rights vegan. (It was all precipitated by him meeting and dating a woman who worked at PETA) He was about 45 at the time. Within 2 years, his health had markedly declined. There are healthy vegan diets, but his was an unhealthy vegan diet. Despite no history of heart attacks on either his mothe…

I don't understand why some people gravitate to absolutes. You shall eat no animal products to you shall eat only animal products.

Are people just uncomfortable not knowing and milquetoast answers like "eat a variety" are boring? Are there militant omnivores?

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#62

Post by antisthenes »

mkoubaa wrote: post #37
twobitshifter wrote: post #31

The actual paper was posted yesterday but got flagged. I don’t dispute any of the evidence but I do have 2 points to raise. 1. 95,000 years is plenty of time for adaptations in diet. The development of adult lactase for processing dairy was famously quick. The human diet is today well adapted to other foods without causing severe reactions. 2. The researchers note that our ancestors were primed to store fat for perio…

I would say 95,000 years is plenty of time to begin to develop adaptations in diet. If as a species our survival was still threatened by starvation for another 100k years we might see more adaptation towards meatless, but that seems unlikely.

It depends how much of an advantage a certain diet brought from a procreative standpoint.

If milk drinkers were the only group who could obtain the necessary amount of calories for bearing offspring and sustained existence, then the adaptation would happy much more quickly.

Perhaps even as quick as several generations.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#63

Post by bluGill »

dyingkneepad wrote: post #25
ddorian43 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt being "horrified" on the animal cruelty. We're pretty good to dehumanize other animals except pets I believe.

People weren't horrified about cruelty against slaves not so long ago, and look at where we are now. I bet most people of that era would not believe we'd ever reach the point we got now. I bet many would even be willing to die on wars for over their now-completely-unacceptable ethic standards.

Actually they were. Peers of the Spartans were horrified about how bad they treated their slaves - even though they themselves owned slaves.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#64

Post by VoodooJuJu »

twobitshifter wrote: post #31

The actual paper was posted yesterday but got flagged. I don’t dispute any of the evidence but I do have 2 points to raise. 1. 95,000 years is plenty of time for adaptations in diet. The development of adult lactase for processing dairy was famously quick. The human diet is today well adapted to other foods without causing severe reactions. 2. The researchers note that our ancestors were primed to store fat for perio…

>95,000 years is plenty of time for adaptations in diet

Is it? Is it enough for all kinds of dietary adaptations? If me and my progeny eat grass for 95,000 years, will we adapt to be able to digest it?

On lactose: many of us carry the mutation that helps us digest lactose into adulthood (without any seeming issues). But does that make it ideal to consume? Is consumption of lactose into adulthood causing any issues that I can't readily detect?

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#65

Post by mkoubaa »

imagine99 wrote: post #36
submeta wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It‘s not about eating animals being un/natural. That’s not the (main) argument. It‘s about cruelty towards animals and about sustainability. Besides: Even if you claim us humans were carnivores for thousands of years, what does that prove? First off, humans are omnivores. And secondly, with this kind of argumentation we could say that for hundreds of years we had kingdoms (or slavery), so why have democracies (or uni…

> It‘s about cruelty towards animals and about sustainability. I think that should play absolutely no role in determining whether or not eating meat is better for you than a plant-based diet. It either is or isn't but animal cruelty and sustainability has nothing to do with that. IF we determine that more meat is better, we can totally focus and increase our efforts towards growing sustainable meat. This can be from…

I agree, whether or not meat is good or bad for you is a question that shouldn't consider environment impact. Questions like: Whether one should eat meat, whether the government should enact policies which discourage meat production, and whether we should invest in lab grown meat are questions that should consider cruelty and sustainability.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#66

Post by sto_hristo »

JPKab wrote: post #19

My father had a mid-life crisis in the mid 90's, and went from being an avid hunter and fisherman to being a hardcore animal rights vegan. (It was all precipitated by him meeting and dating a woman who worked at PETA) He was about 45 at the time. Within 2 years, his health had markedly declined. There are healthy vegan diets, but his was an unhealthy vegan diet. Despite no history of heart attacks on either his mothe…

Went in a peanuts store to get... well... peanuts. They have all sorts of *nuts.

Before me a customer was talking to the seller about stuff. The seller offers him to try an almond coated with chocolate and cinnamon, which according to him is the best thing in the store. The customer asks if the chocolate has milk in it. Because, God forbid, he can't have anything animal related, cuz he's vegan. He wouldn't even touch it, not a single one.

These people are fanatics and unless you're a good samaritan-psychologist, don't even bother. Give them weapons and we'll be living a Game of Thrones Faith Militant episode.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#67

Post by imagine99 »

EGreg wrote: post #42

Are you kidding me ... scientists proclaim one extreme, then the other: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ancient-humans-vegetarians-pa... https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancest...

I agree with your irritation (I too would like more authoritative information about this, as it is outside my expertise). However, with regard to the links you posted, I think these are actually the same source and and the HuffPost "article" is just reposted content, not a second opinion on that other viewpoint.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#68

Post by uxcolumbo »

Back then we hunted or scavenged.

Those non-human animals we hunted were living freely and we lived in more harmony with the natural world.

Now we breed, torture and kill millions and millions of non-human animals and in the process destroy our biosphere [0]

We can live perfectly healthy on a plant-based diet - see the Physicians Committee of Responsible Medicine: https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition

We have the brains & technology to create food that is healthy and nutritious without having to continue to support the destructive and cruel factory farm industry.

So the question should be how come we accept this immense cruelty and destruction caused by the factory farm industry?

Damian Mander - founder of International Anti-Poaching Foundation put it best: https://youtu.be/BUMGBwgGYWw?t=100

----

[0] https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environme...

https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/natur...

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#69

Post by throwawayboise »

nish1500 wrote: post #16
Google234 wrote: post #4

This must be devastating news to the vegans and vegetarians they insist that meat is not natural.

Stone age humans are hardly the standard we should be aspiring for. The biggest two arguments for veganism are: 1. The horrific practises of the animal agriculture industry, which looks nothing like a chiseled hunter holding a bow 2. The devastating impact of the above on the environment Cavemen had neither of these issues.

If I were an animal, I might rather be killed humanely in a slaughterhouse than clubbed and stabbed to death by a band of cavemen.

Re: For 2M years, humans ate meat and little else: study

#70

Post by forgetfulness »

uoaei wrote: post #15
mhh__ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a strawman

It is. I have literally never heard this argument from any vegetarians or vegans.

I think it was an old hippie thing, arguments from being closer to nature (rather than merely less harmful) were powerful back then. Today? The comparisons between wild and domestic crops are broadly circulated in the press and memes, premium mock meats are pushed by companies purporting to be high tech operations, there's no way you'd be spearing wild tofu swimming up the river because it doesn't exist.
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