Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

waffleironer.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 183 posts

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#61

Post by notsureaboutpg »

kergonath wrote: post #35
krapp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Although were there really no cultures in that era that allowed same sex marriage? No Christian cultures, obviously.

Was there any historical culture in which same-sex marriage was common or accepted? I can’t think of one, Christian or otherwise (though I can think of a couple of examples of same-sex people got married by subterfuge).

No there were not. The other reply confuses acceptance of homosexual activity with acceptance of homosexual marriage. The latter is a new concept, the former was common in many cultures (notably Ancient Rome / Greece).

Homosexual activity cannot result in biological children so there was really never any society that considered anything like homosexual marriage until our own. The main reason for marriage was to control sexual unions and the children who might result from them. In societies which had marriage (many had no such concept) homosexual marriage didn't make much sense.

The wikipedia article on historical same-sex unions mentions that some cultures had rituals around cementing homosexual relationships but those wouldn't be considered the same as marriage, they'd be more like any pre-sexual / pre-relationship rituals. Marriage typically is about the sharing of finances, responsibilities, the raising and rights of children, etc. And none of the examples in the wikipedia article on historical same-sex unions concerned any of these.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#62

Post by Guthur »

Guthur wrote: post #51
mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

Balancing this in a dynasty simulator would be an absolute nightmare. Presumably the AI would have the ability as well, and then you would have to start coding some restrictions to avoid a dynasty simulator spanning 100s of years going off the rails and then you'll be in for all sorts of progressive political wrangling. Frankly if it was me I'd have stayed well away from it as well. Also, Paradox have not a great tra…

I know I shouldn't talk about down votes but I love how it proves my point. It is impossible to have rational discussions about these topics and so it's actually optimal to avoid them entirely.

And as an aside the game had homosexuality and so assuming there was some conservative stance on the part of the game developer appears ill founded.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#63

Post by jandrese »

josefx wrote: post #22
mabbo wrote: post #2

It seems odd to me. Paradox is a Swedish company, and Sweden is a fairly liberal country. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2009, and even the Church of Sweden gave the go-ahead on performing same-sex marriages the same year. The game logic around this is simple enough that changing two byes fixes it, so it's not a technical issue. What gives?

Take a look at the screenshot of that same sex marriage, do you notice something odd? The gender symbols at the bottom are male/female not male/male. The patch only disables the gender check, it does not fix the game content or any other logic related to marriage. There are probably dozens of follow up bugs waiting, some of which will need new game logic and art to fix.

I have to wonder if one of the men will become pregnant and have a child once they are married.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#64

Post by inshadows »

sudosysgen wrote: post #30
dudul wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they did notice, figured out it would be complex to modify the engine to handle this case, found data indicating that having this feature or not would have zero impact of the marketability/sales of the game, and just decided to use the bandwidth on something more valuable.

Have we read the same post? It's a one-byte modification, and they ban for mentioning the patch.

Maybe adding same-sex marriage just isn't important for game from times where same-sex marriage was non-existent. I want rocket jumps in every game but I doubt my desire will be fulfilled.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#65

Post by PeterisP »

sudosysgen wrote: post #30
dudul wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they did notice, figured out it would be complex to modify the engine to handle this case, found data indicating that having this feature or not would have zero impact of the marketability/sales of the game, and just decided to use the bandwidth on something more valuable.

Have we read the same post? It's a one-byte modification, and they ban for mentioning the patch.

It's a one-byte modification if you want just to remove the check for mixed genders upon marriage. If you want to implement as proper game feature - as a selectable option - then you need to do a bunch more things; you need to model the conditions in which that same-sex marriage would be permitted (even if it'd be enabled in the game as such, there would be character-faith-related conditions), you need to model how every other character would treat that marriage (a bunch of conditional modifiers depending on the attributes of that other character), you need to decide how it interacts with polygamy if someone has spouses of both genders; you need to adjust for any impacts on the many inheritance models (after all, the main gameplay purpose of marriage as opposed to just lovers is the effect on inheritance); you need to adjust any events and event text (and translations) where it does not make sense any more; you'd likely need to change the treatment of bastards if one is born in a woman-woman marriage and you need to treat edge cases such as regency if both spouses are pregnant (from other partners) at the same time; etc, etc.

It's far more than a one-byte modification.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#66

Post by xanth »

Paradox games release early, patch often, and the core engine is nearly 15 years old. I wouldn't be surprised if the gender of a marriage is assumed all over the code-base and enabling full equality would have been a significant development complication. This all being said I wouldn't be surprised if we see full equality options in the next year or so.

See: Matrilineal Marriages, Gender Equality, Same-Sex Relations, and Sexuality Distribution

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Game_rule#Gameplay_options

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#67

Post by Causality1 »

meibo wrote: post #60
josefx wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at the screenshot of that same sex marriage, do you notice something odd? The gender symbols at the bottom are male/female not male/male. The patch only disables the gender check, it does not fix the game content or any other logic related to marriage. There are probably dozens of follow up bugs waiting, some of which will need new game logic and art to fix.

That just means someone in charge made a bad choice during planning and either no dev or designer ever dared to speak up against it or many of them supported said bad choice.

Why is it a bad choice? A game set in middle age Europe has no more reason to foresee needing the ability to mod gay marriage into it than accommodating modding cell phones into it. It's not an insignificant amount for work just to include an anachronism.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#68

Post by sudosysgen »

dudul wrote: post #59
sudosysgen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have we read the same post? It's a one-byte modification, and they ban for mentioning the patch.

The author acknowledges themselves: "The patch that I made was only good for the current Steam version of CK3, on my operating system, with my cpu architecture." Not counting the fact that a change like that would need to be more thoroughly QA-ed to make sure it doesn't break something at some point.

This is because targets have different binaries. The change in the code is removing one if statement.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#69

Post by PeterisP »

COGlory wrote: post #41
sudosysgen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have we read the same post? It's a one-byte modification, and they ban for mentioning the patch.

That will introduce game breaking behavior when you can't have kids...

Well, one can have kids from other partners, not only within marriage.

Re: Legalizing gay marriage in Crusader Kings III with Ghidra

#70

Post by sudosysgen »

PeterisP wrote: post #65
sudosysgen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have we read the same post? It's a one-byte modification, and they ban for mentioning the patch.

It's a one-byte modification if you want just to remove the check for mixed genders upon marriage. If you want to implement as proper game feature - as a selectable option - then you need to do a bunch more things; you need to model the conditions in which that same-sex marriage would be permitted (even if it'd be enabled in the game as such, there would be character-faith-related conditions), you need to model how e…

CK3 has a lot of modifiers - you can simply have this as one of them.

You don't need to do any of the above, everything else you mentioned is something that can be done in the scripting language. The community will do it for you. You just have to hide a toggle somewhere.

Post reply on HN