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Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

bbc.com

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Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#61

Post by lotsofpulp »

mlyle wrote: post #38
lotsofpulp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ADA does not require any registration of any service animal. Everyone is expected to accept the service animal’s owner claim that the service animal is a service animal without proof.

If someone shows up with something that couldn't legally be a service animal (e.g. a bunny) or cannot respond adequately as to how the dog has been trained to perform a specific task, then they may have grounds to refuse to admit the dog. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? A. No. These terms ar…

I’m familiar with those guidelines, but effectively, anyone can say anything, and the last sentence shows that you basically have to take their word for it (unless you want to risk getting involved in a costly legal matter). I know you don’t have to take lizards as service animals, but you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs, and maybe miniature horses.

> Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.

Miniature horses here:

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#62

Post by BoiledCabbage »

It was downvoted below, but reposting here because this is something that I think should be seen as it comes up often:

>> "The bottom line is that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, a guide dog should be able to go anywhere that a blind person can go."

> Okay, I completely get this, but question -- what about business owners and drivers who are traumatized by dogs? If I were a driver, I'd be much more likely to crash the car if there was a dog in the car of any kind. I've had traumatic experiences with dogs and being near one sends me into panic.

You should take that into consideration before taking on a job that might require you to drive around dogs. As a country we decided long time ago, that people who require seeing-eye dogs shouldn't be subjected to substandard treatment by society - as was the case before the law protected the visually impaired.

If you want to completely avoid dogs, then don't take a job that involves having to interact with dogs.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#63

Post by Pfhreak »

mlyle wrote: post #38
lotsofpulp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ADA does not require any registration of any service animal. Everyone is expected to accept the service animal’s owner claim that the service animal is a service animal without proof.

If someone shows up with something that couldn't legally be a service animal (e.g. a bunny) or cannot respond adequately as to how the dog has been trained to perform a specific task, then they may have grounds to refuse to admit the dog. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? A. No. These terms ar…

> (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

I worked at a Costco for a few years, these two questions were drilled into us over and over and over and over. People tried to bring dogs into Costco all the time, and we'd ask these two (and only these two) questions. Occasionally, some new employee or someone who was grumpy would go off script and it was considered a very serious issue.

The folks with service animals knew the drill, would answer these questions quickly and succinctly. The ones without service animals would (sometimes) get extremely agitated about them.

It's really tough, because so many people are inconsiderately trying to pretend their animals are service animals, which makes life for the folks who require the assistance of a service animal much, much more complicated. If you've ever considered "just ordering a service dog vest online", please reconsider.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#64

Post by NullPrefix »

MattGaiser wrote: post #16
VBprogrammer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably not. Even if they did, what should they do with that information? Service dogs have special status.

How does this work for workers with dog allergies?

What if animal shelter worker develops an allergy? Should the shelter get rid of dogs? Public service workers interact with the public, that's part of the job.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#65

Post by cperciva »

MattGaiser wrote: post #16
VBprogrammer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably not. Even if they did, what should they do with that information? Service dogs have special status.

How does this work for workers with dog allergies?

I don't know about the USA but there was a recent case in Canada where it was affirmed that drivers with severe allergies can decline a ride as long as they arrange for another vehicle. Basically it was a "disability vs. disability" thing; the customer's disability doesn't take priority over the driver's disability.

Note however that this dealt with severe allergies -- the sort which would need to be accommodated by any other employer.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#66

Post by ehmmmmmmmm »

adoxyz wrote: post #52
ehmmmmmmmm wrote: post #24

> "The bottom line is that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, a guide dog should be able to go anywhere that a blind person can go." Okay, I completely get this, but question -- what about business owners and drivers who are traumatized by dogs? If I were a driver, I'd be much more likely to crash the car if there was a dog in the car of any kind. I've had traumatic experiences with dogs and being near one se…

Don't do a job that legally requires you to potentially have a service animal in your car then...

Not that I plan to, but if I did, I'd be able to pick up a lot of the slack of rides without dogs so that other drivers could pick up the dog rides. I'm sure many drivers are more than willing.

I don't see how this isn't a win-win for them to allow it but give each driver a preference.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#67

Post by Karunamon »

maxharris wrote: post #58

I'd like to go out on a limb and say that I don't agree with the ADA. I don't think any private person or organization should be compelled to provide facilities or services for anyone else, regardless of what their need is. I have no animus toward people with disabilities - I'm just saying that no one should be forced to help anyone else. If you want to do something for someone else's benefit, you should be free to d…

On pure principle I kind of agree, but the reason that the ADA exists is because people with disabilities that require things like ramps and big bathroom stalls with grab bars are not a significant enough market segment to pressure businesses to offer them; the end result of which is that accommodations would not exist otherwise.

This is the necessary kind of regulation that shores up a hole that free markets wouldn't solve on their own. Accommodating disabilities isn't profitable.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#68

Post by [deleted] »

benatkin wrote: post #7

> It rejected Uber's claim that the company itself was not liable, because, it argued, its drivers had the status of contractors rather than employees. I feel like money would be better spent raising awareness of service dogs and dealing with fraudulent (they do call it fraud, right?) service dogs than fining Uber.

[deleted]

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#69

Post by ehmmmmmmmm »

shuntress wrote: post #31
ehmmmmmmmm wrote: post #24

> "The bottom line is that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, a guide dog should be able to go anywhere that a blind person can go." Okay, I completely get this, but question -- what about business owners and drivers who are traumatized by dogs? If I were a driver, I'd be much more likely to crash the car if there was a dog in the car of any kind. I've had traumatic experiences with dogs and being near one se…

This is equivalent to a landlord saying "Sorry, it's to expensive to build wheel chair ramps. So we didn't build any" According to Uber, you need to call up another driver and get them to come take over for you because Uber will not.

If you're building a new building you should be required to have wheelchair ramps. Allergies and PTSD to ramps isn't really a thing, so it's okay to require them.

If you have an old building it's on the government to provide the ramps OR cut property taxes so that the landlord has the cash to install the ramps. If you want to hit everyone with insane property taxes they can't be expected to maintain buildings to standards at the same time.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#70

Post by lupire »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #62

It was downvoted below, but reposting here because this is something that I think should be seen as it comes up often: >> "The bottom line is that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, a guide dog should be able to go anywhere that a blind person can go." > Okay, I completely get this, but question -- what about business owners and drivers who are traumatized by dogs? If I were a driver, I'd be much more likely…

The ADA applies to workers too. A dog allergy is a disability.
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