Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity • Hacker News Board

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#61

Post by cik » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

peytn wrote: post #44

cik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exceptionally untrue - though it can be true in context. In the city beside mine, renting a place downtown, and working in the grocery store it's very possible to save $500 per month. For reference, minimum wage is the equivalent of $1700 USD, and renting a one-bedroom, all in will cost roughly $454 USD. With cellphone (250GB of 5G speeds) costing the equivalent of $15 USD, and groceries and electricity costin…

I assume the whole point of picking the S&P 500 and not, say, Bitcoin is that it is something that an average person would reasonably invest in. Presumably you don’t live in the US. Who exactly is working at a grocery store abroad and putting their savings in SPY for 45 years? Are there average people abroad who would’ve invested all their money in US markets for the past 45 years and considered that a financially so…

I'm in Israel. This is extremely normal. We have trackers on the TLV. If you work anywhere and have any sort of pension, the default (i.e you sign your employment contract, and forget about life) is 80% tracking the S&P 500. To be clear, pensions are a thing in this country - most employees are legally mandated to pay into them, with pre-tax dollars that are received as a credit, with an employee match. That amount is 7% of your gross salary. Meaning, in my example, at a minimum, the average Israeli is saving $122 (USD) per month.

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#62

Post by nibsfive » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #53

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #3

From the article: Most millionaires opt for stealth wealth. Their friends don’t know, their coworkers don’t know, their extended family doesn’t know. In a few cases, not even their children know! Wealth is accumulated through habits; at least in a free society like ours. At the moment, something like 1 out of 25 households falls into the millionaire category, most of it self-made. From the comments: Your right in Jac…

> "Wealth is accumulated through habits" is a great story to tell people but it seems very often to be complete BS. I see a lot of these. One of my favorite examples is https://www.businessinsider.com/how-ebony-horton-paid-off-22... . "How one 31-year-old paid off $220,000 in student loans in 3 years" is the exciting title. You have to get to paragraph #7 to learn "work at your parent's charity" is one of the techniq…

$20M net worth at 27 while being financially independent at 17 years old here. AMA.

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#63

Post by unishark » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

mikepurvis wrote: post #24

woah wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still have $1 million dollars more than someone without a house

I mean yes, but when you've built your life in a place, it's little comfort being a "millionaire" if the only way to cash in on it is to pull up stakes and move hundreds of kilometers away.

I suspect arguments like this are even less comfort to people who have rented apartments their entire lives and aren't sitting on a million dollars of property.

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#64

Post by TuringNYC » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

cik wrote: post #17

borplk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Wealth is accumulated through habits" is a great story to tell people but it seems very often to be complete BS. Yes. It's capitalist propaganda. If you are a highly paid heart surgeon or CEO you can "accumulate wealth with habits". If you are anywhere between flipping burgers to many other types of jobs there's just not enough money "coming in" for these things to make a huge difference. You can be more sensible…

That's exceptionally untrue - though it can be true in context. In the city beside mine, renting a place downtown, and working in the grocery store it's very possible to save $500 per month. For reference, minimum wage is the equivalent of $1700 USD, and renting a one-bedroom, all in will cost roughly $454 USD. With cellphone (250GB of 5G speeds) costing the equivalent of $15 USD, and groceries and electricity costin…

The problem with the analysis is -- minimum wage has barely increased while costs have markedly increased.

What are the odds that the rent will stay the same for 45 years (per your analysis) and what are the odds that minimum wage would go up equivalently?

You also missed: taxes, healthcare premiums, healthcare copays/fees, transportation, dental.

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#65

Post by davnn » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

nibsfive wrote: post #62

ceejayoz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Wealth is accumulated through habits" is a great story to tell people but it seems very often to be complete BS. I see a lot of these. One of my favorite examples is https://www.businessinsider.com/how-ebony-horton-paid-off-22... . "How one 31-year-old paid off $220,000 in student loans in 3 years" is the exciting title. You have to get to paragraph #7 to learn "work at your parent's charity" is one of the techniq…

$20M net worth at 27 while being financially independent at 17 years old here. AMA.

Invested in crypto? :)

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#66

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

nibsfive wrote: post #62

ceejayoz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Wealth is accumulated through habits" is a great story to tell people but it seems very often to be complete BS. I see a lot of these. One of my favorite examples is https://www.businessinsider.com/how-ebony-horton-paid-off-22... . "How one 31-year-old paid off $220,000 in student loans in 3 years" is the exciting title. You have to get to paragraph #7 to learn "work at your parent's charity" is one of the techniq…

$20M net worth at 27 while being financially independent at 17 years old here. AMA.

What was the habit that made you rich?

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#67

Post by vmception » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

ruined wrote: post #26

vmception wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well this is mostly semantics: the quote does not contradict, most of the wealth was self-made. as in the profits accumulated during their lifetime, it doesn't say anything about how the first one million or any amount was made. your consternation requires you to have a fixed and shared definition of self made that is just not described at all here. it does leave a glaring hole about then which wealth was not self-ma…

stocks literally represent the right to control capital and be paid by others who do work using that capital. it's the most explicit form of "not my labor" in the entire economy and i'm not sure why you expect op to explain that

I said this in another comment, but I think that you think I find this controversial, and I don't. and I keep forgetting that this is the default assumption these days on wealth related topics.

My thoughts are limited to exactly what I said and I am content with this reality that the profits accumulated during their lifetime are counted as self-made, it doesn't say anything about how the first one million or any amount was made, and that wage earners are excluded from playing from math alone.

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#68

Post by tweetle_beetle » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

HEmanZ wrote: post #38

cik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exceptionally untrue - though it can be true in context. In the city beside mine, renting a place downtown, and working in the grocery store it's very possible to save $500 per month. For reference, minimum wage is the equivalent of $1700 USD, and renting a one-bedroom, all in will cost roughly $454 USD. With cellphone (250GB of 5G speeds) costing the equivalent of $15 USD, and groceries and electricity costin…

And most people don't flip burgers. The median household income in the US in 2019 was $68,000/yr [1]. In the part of the US I am from, and the parts I have lived most of my life, this affords an extremely good quality of life with plenty of room for intelligent financial decisions. So crying "this doesn't apply to people with really low incomes" is true to an extent, but that's only a fraction of the population. Goin…

> Wealth is accumulated through habits; at least in a free society like ours.

This is a pretty universal statement if you ask me, and used in the context of praise of someone who started with wealth.

Pointing out that it does not apply universally, and the extending the idea to state that people in poverty are not truly participants in the "free society" mentioned, is a fair development of the discussion in my opinion.

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#69

Post by lostcolony » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

throwawayfire wrote: post #32

lostcolony wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is helpful if they want to and are able to move to an area with lower real estate prices. Otherwise that 'wealth' is tied up in a good they are unable to sell (without incurring an implicit debt of either needing to find another house in the same high price area, or having to pay for rent in the same high price area). A house may be a reasonable investment vehicle; it can also be an extremely illiquid one.

If so, they still have $1 million more to spend on rent.

Certainly. If they've actually purchased the home, and are not mid-mortgage on it. Honestly, crunching the numbers in my high COL area, the cost for a ~$1 million mortgage and the cost for renting a nice two bedroom, at the current rates, are basically the same.

Essentially what you're saying is that because someone has put money into mortgage payments instead of rent, they're better off financially, and I'm completely in agreement with you. I just don't agree that it somehow implies they're living high on the hog, so to speak; yes, they have additional options if shit hits the fan (metaphors metaphors!), in that they can cut their losses, look to sell, and move to a lower cost area and have a bit banked (and -maybe- retain their income given remote work, but also maybe not), but that's still quite a lot to expect.

Re: Man Built a $188M Fortune Investing in Stocks Then Donated It to Charity

#70

Post by conradev » Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #3

From the article: Most millionaires opt for stealth wealth. Their friends don’t know, their coworkers don’t know, their extended family doesn’t know. In a few cases, not even their children know! Wealth is accumulated through habits; at least in a free society like ours. At the moment, something like 1 out of 25 households falls into the millionaire category, most of it self-made. From the comments: Your right in Jac…

On one hand, I find the rhetoric in the (originally linked) article annoying and unhelpful.

On the other hand, I wish it wasn’t taboo to talk about money in our society. I wish I could read stories about normal people managing their finances well, from how to save wages from a minimum wage job up to managing a large salary, liquidation event, or trust fund.

I feel like I was wholly unprepared to deal with money effectively and had to learn from my mistakes along the way. I’m horrified when I talk to people with money who don’t know the difference between an appreciating asset and a depreciating one, or have never touched the stock market, or don’t understand risk versus reward and how to manage risk. After my sister bought some stocks on Robinhood, I had to explain how it encourages risky behavior (my euphemism for gambling).

Comparing notes with friends in similar situations was like a breath of fresh air. I hate twiddling with numbers as much as the next person, but you kinda need to understand capital to do well for yourself in the US.