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Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

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Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your summary is incorrect. They are not taking their results to indicate that their assumption is incorrect, but rather that the anti-female bias must be even stronger elsewhere to overcome the significant pro-female bias at initial stages.

I think the two of you are in violent agreement.

We generally agree, though not violently :). I was pointing out that the effect is a bit bigger than the parent suggested. The authors aren’t abandoning their priors about anti-female bias; on the contrary they aren’t even recognizing that this evidence challenges those priors—they assume that the evidence to prove their priors must exist elsewhere and in sufficiently large effect as to counteract and dominate this pro-female bias.

Note that I think it’s a fine thing to stick to one’s priors until they’ve been conclusively disproven, but recognition when the evidence obviously challenges one’s priors is my baseline for good faith. That said, I suspect this paper is written as it was because the authors thought their careers might be in danger for merely suggesting that the disparity might have a cause beyond discrimination.

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem - their results show a bias against white and/or male entrepreneurs in this study on gender and race, yet don't point this out and suggest that we should look for negative female/asian bias elsewhere. The results speak for themselves but the abstract and mindset is indicative of what they were really looking for in the first place.

> yet don't point this out and suggest that we should look for negative female/asian bias elsewhere I’m confused, the study does suggest we look for anti-female bias elsewhere. Indeed, the authors seem to argue that it must exist elsewhere, and more powerfully so in order to explain the gender gap.

> must exist elsewhere, and more powerfully so in order to explain the gender gap.

Why is anti-female bias the only possible explanation of the gap? Why is that the only acceptable hypothesis? It's a possibility, it might even be probable, but there seems to be an exclusionary focus both in your comments and in the abstract.

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#63
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your summary is incorrect. They are not taking their results to indicate that their assumption is incorrect, but rather that the anti-female bias must be even stronger elsewhere to overcome the significant pro-female bias at initial stages.

> that the anti-female bias must be even stronger elsewhere to overcome the significant pro-female bias at initial stages From a strictly scientific standpoint, you can’t really draw such “must be” conclusions. It could also very well be that the input into the existing funnel is low; I.e that there is a lower percentage of female founders because females make a lower percentage of the applicant pool. And, to be clea…

Strongly agree. It would be nice if the authors nodded to the possibility that the disparity might not be attributable to VC bias at all.

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#64
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody prevents Indian women to apply for H1B jobs in US. > Its counter-productive to institute gender and diversity requirements at (tech) companies, where the core problem is at the fundamental immigration level. I don't see anything counterproductive in blind recruitment. It's a normal practice, along with randomizing resume review in a few big companies in places like India, or China exactly because the issue of…

Chinese and Indian cultures suppress female H1B applicants in systemic ways that the US can't influence even if it wanted to.

Do you have data on this as it relates specifically to H1B applications?

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#65
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet don't point this out and suggest that we should look for negative female/asian bias elsewhere I’m confused, the study does suggest we look for anti-female bias elsewhere. Indeed, the authors seem to argue that it must exist elsewhere, and more powerfully so in order to explain the gender gap.

> must exist elsewhere, and more powerfully so in order to explain the gender gap. Why is anti-female bias the only possible explanation of the gap? Why is that the only acceptable hypothesis? It's a possibility, it might even be probable, but there seems to be an exclusionary focus both in your comments and in the abstract.

I have the same questions.

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, reading further into the article they seem to be trying to answer, “At what stage in the funding pipeline do VCs become biased against women?”. It’s interesting that they don’t entertain the possibility that the gap might be caused by something other than bias (at least so far... I’m only 6 pages in). For example: > Combating bias requires understanding how and where it manifests. Combating bias requires unde…

"It’s interesting that they don’t entertain the possibility that the gap might be caused by something other than bias" Imagine a medicinal study that would concentrate on the hypothesis that sinners get cholera as a divine retribution for their sinful lives, and would not even entertain other possible causes, such as ... dirty drinking water. We would rightly locate such a study into, say, 1840, but definitely not 20…

> We would rightly locate such a study into, say, 1840, but definitely not 2021.

You give far too little credit to 1840 and far too much to 2021.

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#67

I never understand why classify people on their looks. Talking primarily about the US. There is such a wide spectrum of white people coming from different cultures. Also, you're considered Asian if you're a Chinese immigrant but also if you were born in the US to Chinese descent let's say. The main common thing between the two groups is looks. Same for Africans and African Americans who are both classified as blacks…

Arguably that's why the US has less severe racism/classism than much of the rest of the world (despite whatever pop narrative).

I don't understand how that follows from the parent comment?

The comment rightfully points out that in the US people are mostly classified by their superficial looks vs their actual ethnicity.

Which leads to the situation that quite a diverse field of ethnicities and cultures are boiled down to very generalized "white/black/yellow/whatever" groups.

Case in point: The recent shooting in a Colorado grocery store was, rather quickly, tried to be framed as "white extremism" due to skin color of the perpetrator and footage of his arrest going public.

When said perpetrator is actually a Syrian who became a naturalized US citizen by the name of "Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa, of Arvada", which is about the least "white" name one could come up with.

Or for another example: The Nazis are regularly evoked as an example of racism and white supremacy, when the vast majority of people killed by the Nazis were actually "white", just not the right kind of "white".

That's why in Europe racism often isn't based on color of skin, but rather on accents, ethnic looks and family names, as skin color alone is not enough to differentiate the out-group from the rest: A white British person is just as white as a white Polish person, yet that doesn't mean that the two of them will consider themselves as part of the same ethnic or cultural group.

That idea only exists in the heads of people who evoke some allegedly unified "European culture" to stipulate that Europe is "racially homogeneous" because it's only made up of "white people".

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#68

From abstract: ” Female entrepreneurs received 9% more interested replies than males pitching identical projects and Asians received 6% more than Whites. Our results suggest that investors do not discriminate against female or Asian entrepreneurs when evaluating unsolicited pitch emails and that future research on investor biases should focus on networks and in-person interactions.” In other words: The preferred resu…

I didn’t see any mention of it in the study but I’d hazard a guess that most VCs are heterosexual men and that might be a factor in an initial preference for women’s pitches, other things being equal.

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#69
post #14

Same thing with job applications: "In an attempt to increase workplace diversity, the Australian public service implemented a .. trial removing all mention of gender and ethnicity from applications. It was found that removing gender from thousands of applications made women less likely to advance through the recruitment process compared to cases where gender was visible. The trial found that a woman's name on an appl…

I think it’s worth noting that that finding is not universal, and other studies do find the opposite. My brief skim through Google scholar does seem to show a fairly divided field here. http://www-2.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/Whitening%20MS%... https://www.alexandria.unisg.ch/19805/1/Cole%20et%20al.%2020... https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/36436480/Gender_et_bia...

It's impossible to control for the culture of the organizations who are reviewing the applicants.

In the US, if you sent anonymized resumes to old, large companies in Industry X and then sent them to new, small companies in Industry Y, you are likely to get very different results.

Then your results become very dependent on how well you randomize those organizations, which is very difficult. If you get a few more "X" orgs instead of "Y" orgs, your results look totally different.

Re: Gender, race, and entrepreneurship: A randomized field experiment on investors

#70

Same thing with job applications: "In an attempt to increase workplace diversity, the Australian public service implemented a .. trial removing all mention of gender and ethnicity from applications. It was found that removing gender from thousands of applications made women less likely to advance through the recruitment process compared to cases where gender was visible. The trial found that a woman's name on an appl…

Reason https://www.bloombergquint.com/us-elections-2020/biden-plans...
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