Katakana, to me, is such a trouble. I really wonder whether I'm the only one who believes that Katakana is a big part of the reason, why it's very hard for native Japanese speakers to learn English. In a Japan of today, you grow up with a plentitude of words taken from English and written + pronounced in Katakana. So you learn to pronounce "san-do-i-chi" for sandwich, "de-za-i-na" for "designer", "su-ma-ho" for smart…
Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
61–70 of 131 posts
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just because a language more complicated to someone with a different culture doesn't mean that it's unnecessarily complicated. It's a very westerner thing to say "your language is too complicated, you should simplify it for me"
Well, you can actually make a pretty good objective case for Japanese writing being the most complicated writing system on the planet, since no other language that I'm aware of regularly mixes 4 scripts, where basically entirety of Chinese forms just one of those scripts. Except that whereas in Chinese it's rare for a character to have more than one or two readings, in Japanese there are characters with over 70: http…
Kanken levels beyond 2 are a different matter; they cover words that aren't in common use, and are more akin to learning trivia for the sake of learning trivia.
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
The author seems to be French-speaking, and "sinogramme" seems to be an accepted term in French: > Les caractères chinois, ou sinogrammes, sont les unités logographiques qui composent l'écriture des langues chinoises. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caract%C3%A8res_chinois
Some additional information: France is actually a leading country when it comes to Japanese Studies, to the point where high-level knowledge of French is a relevant skill in pursuing Japanese studies elsewhere, as many papers were historically only available in French.
This is in contrast to the endless trouble French speakers have with the English 'th'...
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#64I am currently memorizing Hiragana (~100% done) and Katagana (~10% done), before venturing into learning some basic Japanese. It's incredibly and unnecessarily complicated, from the perspective of a "westerner" (Italian roots, fluent in English, some Spanish, bits of French). I'm still fascinated by it, and still want to learn some, primarily because I like visiting Japan and I plan to spend several weeks per year th…
Just because a language more complicated to someone with a different culture doesn't mean that it's unnecessarily complicated. It's a very westerner thing to say "your language is too complicated, you should simplify it for me"
Take hiragana for instance, it consists of 46 characters (versus 26 for the latin alphabet). The latin alphabet is way more efficient than hiragana because we compose sounds instead of syllables: ta is t+a, whereas in hiragana あ doesn't appear in た. Then you add katakana and kanji, and it just becomes impossible to think of Japanese writing as not complicated.
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#65What's amazing about hentai-kana (hentai as "alternative form", not pervert) is that governments and town registrars still allow using them as an official name in their electronic registry. I recently got a copy of my family register, and found out that my grandma's name was officially in hentai kana. Apparently they made special fonts for each unique character, but I don't know how they're encoded on their database.…
Hentaigana have unicode codes as you can see in this table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hentaigana#In_Unicode So all they need to do is use a font that implements it.
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#66I am currently memorizing Hiragana (~100% done) and Katagana (~10% done), before venturing into learning some basic Japanese. It's incredibly and unnecessarily complicated, from the perspective of a "westerner" (Italian roots, fluent in English, some Spanish, bits of French). I'm still fascinated by it, and still want to learn some, primarily because I like visiting Japan and I plan to spend several weeks per year th…
You may see the merit of it in a year or so. Spelling and pronunciation is unambiguous (at least for kana where there’s no chance to misread). It’s really hard to read pure kana because you have to process a lot of homophones although I guess that’s surmountable because it mostly works for spoken language. You do however see even native speakers explain which word they mean by signing the kanji, from time to time. An…
Even kana have exceptions where spelling and pronunciation are ambiguous. E.g. は/へ, which canonically represent [ha̠]/[he̞] but are also used for particles pronounced [ɰᵝa̠]/[e̞], which would usually be written わ/え. And こうし pronounced either [ko̞ːɕi] when it means 格子 (grid) or [ko̞ɯ̟ᵝɕi] when it means 子牛 (calf). Then there are aspects of the pronunciation like pitch accent and devoiced vowels that can't be expressed using kana at all...
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
> as sinograms are used at least in Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Vietnam While technically a true statement, the usage of kanji in Korea and Vietnam is now fairly limited - Korea uses typically a system based on combining sounds together nowadays (while you still see them use Kanji for names or titles here and there) and Vietnam has moved to (an accent-rich) alphabet during the French colonization .
I'd say good riddance. Why saddle yourself with this abomination?
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd speculate differently. Americans commute by car, audiobooks are convenient to read while driving. Japanese commute by train, which is much more suitable to looking at a book (paper or electronic). Also, Manga is massively popular, and that form doesn't covert well (or at all) to audiobook.
> I'd speculate differently. Americans commute by car... Actually, I mentioned that possibility to the editor, too, as I have often read about Americans listening to audiobooks in the car. His response was that where he is from, in Saitama Prefecture, most people commute by car, too, but while they listen to the radio they don’t listen to audiobooks. That was his impression, anyhow. You’re right about manga, of cours…
In Canada you commute by driving fast along large roads, what would be highways in Japan. While in Saitama, and most of Japan car commutes, you drive on much smaller roads. You often need to stop for lights. At any time a moped might drive next to you in your own lane. Over all the experience leaves little attention to spare and the drive is never monotonous.
Meanwhile in Canada the driving was longer overall, and always with large stretchs at high speeds with no stopping once on the highway. Mopeds and motorbikes are not allowed to sneak by you. When the highway backs up you've find yourself driving for 30+ minutes without turning.
Saitama backs up too, but more because many intersections have no dedicated turning lanes. Thus a driving turning left will block everyone behind. When traffic is bad a couple intersections near my house often let no more than 3 cars per cycle through.
Personally I expect the audiobook market to be about the differences in commuting. On trains it is easier to read a book than to wear headphones. In cars your attention is constantly demanded.
In exchange commuting by car implies a shorter commute. I can commute into the core of Tokyo from Saitama in only 30 minutes. Parking costs 30 dollars for the day, and highway tolls cost 14 dollars in total, but it saves me otherwise unbillable time and thus makes sense for my situation.
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some additional information: France is actually a leading country when it comes to Japanese Studies, to the point where high-level knowledge of French is a relevant skill in pursuing Japanese studies elsewhere, as many papers were historically only available in French.
I studies Japanese a bit in France a long time ago and was told that spoken French includes all the sounds of spoken Japanese so that a French speaker should have no problem pronouncing Japanese, apart from the accent. This is in contrast to the endless trouble French speakers have with the English 'th'...
Usually when someone thinks that language X has all the sounds of language Y, it's a speaker of language X who hasn't yet realized that their ears are too attuned to language X to recognize the sounds of language Y as something different. Don't trust your ears!
Re: Japanese typography: Kilograms of sinograms
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Attempts such as Esperanto and others were never carried out with enough skills or resources. That is a dubious claim. The truth of the matter is that there is no economic benefit in learning Esperanto over learning English as a second language, and (comparatively) very little cultural benefit. Learning English unlocks a vast world of literature, media, and communication in addition to the basic marketable skill it…
It's even harder to learn a universal language if you can always turn to Google Translate.
It does not generate formality levels correctly or consistently at all, so if you translate multiple sentences it can go from non-formal and non-polite to very formal and polite.
English is more or less a universal language, and esperanto will never achieve anything other than being a toy language for nerds. It's neat, but that's all it is. You would be better served learning Mandarin, English, Spanish, or German.