We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud • Hacker News Board

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#61

Post by Trasmatta » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

jack_riminton wrote: post #54

dubcanada wrote: post #10

People do not use Heroku because it takes 5 minutes to spin up a box. They use it because it's super easy. Click a button, bam deployed. Want to add a database, click what database you want, bam you got a database, environment variables set and a GUI (depending on what you pick). Want to scale up? Click a button, you're now scaled up. Want a entire review system with staging links and everything? Setup the review pro…

"there is no CLI involved" Well that's annoying, seeing as I've just done everything else on the CLI

You can do the majority of Heroku interactions on the CLI if you prefer.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#62

Post by sytse » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

Trasmatta wrote: post #50

sytse wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Heroku has the perfect dev environment, not much to improve there. We’re trying to make the perfect production environment. Most people end up hosting at a hyper cloud (edit: like AWS). We’re trying to make the app on a hyper cloud in production as easy as Heroku is in development. We’re still building that, it is t done by any means. And the article doesn’t do a good job of showing what we are trying to make…

It would be helpful if the post was a bit clearer on that. FWIW, I've used Heroku as a production environment at multiple jobs. It works great there as well. The primary issue in my experience is cost. If you need to serve a lot of traffic, Heroku gets very expensive very fast. But it's still easy to use. That cost can be offset by the fact that you may not need to hire a dedicated devops engineer right away, and you…

I agree the blog post isn’t clear on that.

I agree a simple production app can be great on Heroku. However besides being costly it is also hard when you want a managed service that isn’t on the platform. There are other reasons, https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/5-minute-production-app/deploy... lists 9 in total.

While a production app on Heroku isn’t hard it isn’t trivial either. We’re trying to make the 5 minute production app faster to set up than Heroku for production apps by automatically configuring a bunch of services. We’re not there yet but that is the goal.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#63

Post by toyg » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

A better Heroku to me would be something like Dokku but for OpenBSD (or generally unix-agnostic). An universal PaaS, if you will.

Also something that makes it easier to handle the dev/prod lifecycle. I'm sure it's all very easy once you have all your devops stuff down, but the setup is still somewhat convoluted and drowning in too much YAML.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#64

Post by jack_riminton » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

john_cogs wrote: post #56

Trasmatta wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found the article confusing. It was difficult to understand what they're actually doing (I'm still unclear on that, actually).

The documentation might help you to better understand what we're building: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/5-minute-production-app/deploy...

Why would I go to the docs if you can't even describe it properly in a blog post?

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#65

Post by sjs382 » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

candiddevmike wrote: post #15

This was very cringey. A super contrived demo and bashing Heroku through a Twitter reference. Reads like someone is drunk/high and wanted to shitpost about a competitor. I would be appalled by this if I were GitLab's PR department!

Agreed. Also, note this weird little flag/notice from the post:

> This blog post is Unfiltered

with a link to the "legal disclaimer":

> DISCLAIMER: This blog is intended for user-generated content submitted by the GitLab team. The views and opinions represented in this blog are personal to the author of each respective blog post and do not represent the views or opinions of GitLab unless explicitly stated. All content provided on this blog is for informational purposes only. Neither GitLab nor any of the individual blog contributors ("Contributors") make any representations as to the accuracy or completeness of any information on this site. Neither GitLab nor any Contributors will be liable for any errors or omissions in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages from the display or use of this information. Comments are welcome, and in fact, encouraged. However, GitLab reserves the right to edit or delete any comments submitted to this blog without notice should GitLab determine them to i) be spam or questionable spam; ii) include profanity; iii) include language or concepts that could be deemed offensive, hate speech, credible threats, or direct attacks on an individual or group; or iv) are in any other way a violation of GitLab's Website Terms of Use. GitLab is not responsible for the content in comments. This policy is subject to change at any time.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#66

Post by jack_riminton » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

Trasmatta wrote: post #61

jack_riminton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"there is no CLI involved" Well that's annoying, seeing as I've just done everything else on the CLI

You can do the majority of Heroku interactions on the CLI if you prefer.

I know, and I do

The quote was from the blog. Making it seem like doing things off the CLI was a plus point

Right now I have a git alias that does everything, including pushing to my heroku master, in one command. Why would I want to go off the CLI?

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#67

Post by mkhalil » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

I can push an HTML file to prod in 4 minutes with my shiny tech. Heroku took 5. Therefore, my new shiny thing is better.

> Apparently Heroku is not Open Source.

...Neither is AWS. And?

Gitlab is better than this.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#68

Post by WrtCdEvrydy » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

This is pointless as it already exists (Caprover)

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#69

Post by vasilakisfil » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

That's a big statement. I am afraid it's not easy to replicate Heroku, let alone build something better. Quite the opposite I would say.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#70

Post by arthurcolle » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

john_cogs wrote: post #56

Trasmatta wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found the article confusing. It was difficult to understand what they're actually doing (I'm still unclear on that, actually).

The documentation might help you to better understand what we're building: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/5-minute-production-app/deploy...

I would definitely caution you + the author of this post to tone down the rhetoric. Heroku has earned a tremendous amount of goodwill by being... basically fucking awesome and enabling tremendous amounts of productivity without having to screw around with infinite configuration settings. Just earn your own goodwill on your own merits, not by denigrating an extremely competent "competitor"