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The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

bbc.com

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Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#61

Post by guscost »

dcolkitt wrote: post #42
guscost wrote: post #30

All human coronavirus diseases, including COVID-19, are colds. Always have been. This one from 1890 might have been caused by OC43: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889–1890_pandemic

This is a pretty interesting hypothesis. Maybe there’s nothing really special about SARS type coronaviruses besides their novelty. Is it possible that all coronaviruses, including the ones that cause a common cold, have a similar morbidity profile to COVID? Very minor infection in the young or those with previous exposure, extremely deadly in the old and naive. Except we all catch a bunch of colds in childhood, so no…

I have been saying this for many years, and have been condescended to a lot (by friends, even) for saying it.

We clearly don’t have the faintest understanding of the long-term dynamics of something like SARS, when all the conventional model parameters go to such extremes. And when the disease is evolving. And when people retreat inside and stop getting sun. And so on.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#62

Post by guscost »

andruby wrote: post #47
guscost wrote: post #30

All human coronavirus diseases, including COVID-19, are colds. Always have been. This one from 1890 might have been caused by OC43: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889–1890_pandemic

> are colds. What constitutes a "cold"? Is there some kind of definition for it?

Exactly! Colds are poorly understood, and can be very dangerous.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4181476/

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#63

Post by rovr138 »

andruby wrote: post #47
guscost wrote: post #30

All human coronavirus diseases, including COVID-19, are colds. Always have been. This one from 1890 might have been caused by OC43: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889–1890_pandemic

> are colds. What constitutes a "cold"? Is there some kind of definition for it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold

> The common cold, also known simply as a cold, is a viral infectious disease of the upper respiratory tract that primarily affects the respiratory mucosa of the nose, throat, sinuses, and larynx.

further down,

> Well over 200 virus strains are implicated in causing the common cold, with rhinoviruses being the most common.[13]

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#64

Post by klebe »

adults average 2-4 colds per year; kids even more so (6-8)

Think about all the natural immunity we squandered by locking everyone down.....not only did we miss out on herd immunity, but now it seems that even the common cold would've acted as a defense system

experts are to be doubted. always.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#65

Post by SirSavary »

mrkramer wrote: post #39
meowface wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you're not "weak", you could inadvertently spread it to someone who is "weak", and they could spread it to many other "weak" people, and then they all die and don't pass on their genes. It's true that this is a form of eugenics and natural selection, but it's not the kind that's compatible with the values of most humans.

Don't worry I'm not going to harm anyone just like Spanish flu ended in 2 years this pandemic will also end soon. I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea "A person commits an offense if he: intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual." I hav…

You better hope that the judge handling your case doesn't stumble upon this comment thread. Your lack of Mens Rea isn't going to fly if you're caught meta-discussing the whole thing.

Also, manslaughter?

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#66

Post by gjs278 »

_f1dq wrote: post #24
mrkramer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it is natural selection if I'm weak I will die if I'm not I will pass my genes to my kids. That's how we evolved to the level of biological machine that human body is.

It’s not you dying that’s the problem with your statement so much as the other people you’re going to kill because of your choice not to get vaccinated. That’s one step away from a family member of mine saying recently, “You all can live in fear but I choose to live my life in faith that God will take care of me.”

all of those people are weak and it was their time to die

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#67

Post by mrkramer »

robotbikes wrote: post #25
mrkramer wrote: post #5

Another reason I personally would not like to get vaccinated. Nature and evolution solve all problems sooner or later.

People should be free to make choices regarding their own body but the notion of "nature" as an anthromorphic problem solver and superiority of genes is pretty out of sync with our reality. There are many augmentations we use to help survive and vaccines are no different. Glasses for instance are not "natural" but I don't see many people arguing that we should only let those with 20/20 vision survive. Going down that…

>Glasses for instance are not "natural" but I don't see many people arguing that we should only let those with 20/20 vision survive.

I agree with you. Glasses and vaccine are great achievements of human civilization but I raised questions about freedom, biology and moral.

I'm not against vaccination I took many of them as a child and I have glasses which help and enhance me significantly but I'm not for mandatory vaccination or COVID passports that my European Union wants to enforce and I'm not for European Union limiting my human rights. We are going back to the days of Hitler where it was more important who you are "biologically" than looking at the fact that we are all humans and that we all have equal rights.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#68

Post by brigandish »

_zn02 wrote: post #34
guscost wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I’m the opposite. I would have no significant reservations if it wasn’t for the creepy fascist vibe oozing from beneath the facade of “science”. As it stands, I’ll go to war today and die to guarantee my and your and everyone’s right to refuse, should TPTB actually try anything that stupid. Shouldn’t be a problem though, the people in favor seem to be mostly bullies making noise. They tend to shut up when you…

"I believe the vaccine works and I'll die for your right not to take it" is one hell of a take, and I'm just happy there really aren't that many of you out there. You may want to remove the link in your profile where you express skepticism that we'll hit millions of deaths worldwide, as it's going to make people question your already questionable viewpoints even more.

It's hardly a surprise that someone who believes strongly in personal freedom might fight to defend it for (what are supposedly) liberal societies, especially given that several very large wars of the 20th century (hot and cold) are often described as fights for freedom, and usual for the freedom of of others and of all.

This is basically the default position of every liberal (not in the misapplied American parlance) for at least 150 years now and surely far longer.

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.”

John Stuart Mill, 1862

https://www.bartleby.com/73/1934.html

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#69

Post by gjs278 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #20
mrkramer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will if government requires it but it was not my free will.

That would still be your free will. You'd still be presented with a choice: A) Don't do the thing you don't want to (Vaccination) - or - B) Don't do the thing that having a vaccination would let you do. That's still freedom of choice - you're free to decide what you want more. Having constraints on you isn't removing your free will.

that’s barely freedom of choice. a robber pulling a gun on you and saying your money or your life isn’t what any reasonable person interprets as free will. free will would be not going to jail or being banned from society if you chose not to take the vaccine.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#70

Post by NeutralCrane »

guscost wrote: post #21
mrkramer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will if government requires it but it was not my free will.

Funny, I’m the opposite. I would have no significant reservations if it wasn’t for the creepy fascist vibe oozing from beneath the facade of “science”. As it stands, I’ll go to war today and die to guarantee my and your and everyone’s right to refuse, should TPTB actually try anything that stupid. Shouldn’t be a problem though, the people in favor seem to be mostly bullies making noise. They tend to shut up when you…

No one is holding people down and injecting them with a vaccine. Everyone has the right to refuse. But society also has a right (and an obligation) to ensure that externalities are costed appropriately. You refusing a vaccine is a choice, but it also negatively affects others around you.

Whether its in the form of tax penalties, barred admission from public services, vaccination "passport" campaigns, or what have you, there needs to be a cost to associated with the damage your personal decision does to our society. If refusing a vaccine is truly that important to you, you are welcome to pay the cost. But I suspect many anti-vaxxers are simply societal freeloaders whose "principles" will melt away when they actually cost them something.

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