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All my career rejections

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Re: All my career rejections

#61

Post by filmgirlcw »

azhenley wrote: post #42
d33lio wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be harsh, but maybe this guy just isn't a good engineer / academic? This is why I switched from EE to CS, I found it far more interesting and could execute doing software stuff at a very high level even with my piss poor academic record. Never do something you're mediocre at, life just isn't going to be a good time if that's your approach. Tbh, if I was this guy I would've just switched industries and done som…

I never thought I was bad at my job and I have equal/higher acceptance rates than my friends, but thanks for the vote of confidence! Rejection is very common in academia and I wish people talked about it more.

Thank you for writing about it! It’s very common in tech too but people don’t talk about that either (though academia is objectively more competitive; you have far fewer tenure-track slots, compared to even a major “elite” tech company that employs over 100,000 people).

It’s important for people to see that those who have succeeded have failed too.

Re: All my career rejections

#62

Post by rapfaria »

StephenAshmore wrote: post #60
rapfaria wrote: post #58

I get it, and I think we've all been hurt. But why keep this list? I remember when I had a stellar year at a big corp. My manager said `nothing bad to report, wow`. I was ready for that S - a Special automatically meant a promotion. A few weeks later, when the whole R&D got the performance letter, I received mine with a C. D usually meant `demitido`, or fired in portuguese. I couldn't believe it, and I kept that lett…

There are many people that have a fear of rejection. A list like this helps to illustrate that it is okay to be rejected. You can be both successful, and have failed to nail an interview. The list seems purposely devised to help those who have that sort of problem, not as a list to remind him of his failures.

Agreed, it can help others.

Re: All my career rejections

#64

Post by filmgirlcw »

I’m not going to rattle off my own career rejection list (though I’ve definitely done in in talks I’ve given aimed at people about to graduate from college), but I really appreciate this post.

I don’t work in academia, but I know enough people that do to know how rare it is to be open about what is a very rejection-heavy industry, and I commend the author for putting that out there!

Re: All my career rejections

#66

Post by chrisseaton »

esel2k wrote: post #53
codezero wrote: post #9

Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally been true. That said, I encourage folks on my team to interview regularly just to know how to value themselves and to see that there are other opportunities, and…

If you only applied to positions you knew where the best candidate - how did you not feel that the job would not offer you new challenges or the position is too low? I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking. The position I did fit a 100% I ended up declining as they were mostly position I thought I would go downwards in my career and pay, even if it sounded interesting. Glad you found that place of cont…

> I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking.

Do you not find interviewing is super expensive in terms of time? My last interview was a four-day trip and about 40 hours of prep time before that.

If I interviewed more than once or twice a year it'd be an enormous time sink. Maybe it pays off for you because you think the networking benefits are so high?

Re: All my career rejections

#67

Post by filmgirlcw »

daveslash wrote: post #8

I entered the professional workforce in the fall of 2008, as the recession was in full force. I had a college degree, but no experience or resume of which to speak - and frankly, didn't know very much outside of academia. I was lucky enough to land a job, but was laid off in fall of 2009. I was poor, sleeping on an air mattress, and in my early 20s, but determined to get a job as a software engineer, even if it meant…

I entered the workforce at the same time. I don’t have kids so I can’t relate to that aspect, but I speak to lots of college students and career-switchers and like you, I always note that I’m coming from a place of knowledge. I’ve been mentoring a lot of recent grads over the last year and with the pandemic, the uncertainty in the job market is very reminiscent of 2008 and I know what it was like to graduate into a pit of “what am I going to do?” And the answer is usually, “it’ll be fine. Probably.”

Re: All my career rejections

#68

Post by throwmeaway_66 »

rapfaria wrote: post #58

I get it, and I think we've all been hurt. But why keep this list? I remember when I had a stellar year at a big corp. My manager said `nothing bad to report, wow`. I was ready for that S - a Special automatically meant a promotion. A few weeks later, when the whole R&D got the performance letter, I received mine with a C. D usually meant `demitido`, or fired in portuguese. I couldn't believe it, and I kept that lett…

This is a very good comment. The fetishization of "failure" is a quite recent phenomenon that like many other communication workflows of the modern time has the implicit or explicit goals of making someone understood, commiserated, seen as naturally strong or "yes, I cried, but look how much stronger I am". A total waste of energy that to my eyes looks weak and entitled. Like when you read on, say, Twitter "my biology professor told me I had no chances of finishing high school, but now I have a PhD in molecular biology" - assuming it is true (and I many times doubt it is the whole story), are you really holding a grudge against a nobody in your life who said some words 15 years ago?

And that's why I use "failure" in quotes here and I never use the word in my life, except in some very specific contexts (e.g., machine failure). Anybody with ambitions in their lives gets rejected, dismissed and have things that don't work even if they cry in High Valyrian. Forget, move on, live large, not small.

Re: All my career rejections

#69

Post by codezero »

esel2k wrote: post #53
codezero wrote: post #9

Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally been true. That said, I encourage folks on my team to interview regularly just to know how to value themselves and to see that there are other opportunities, and…

If you only applied to positions you knew where the best candidate - how did you not feel that the job would not offer you new challenges or the position is too low? I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking. The position I did fit a 100% I ended up declining as they were mostly position I thought I would go downwards in my career and pay, even if it sounded interesting. Glad you found that place of cont…

For me it was a few lucky coincidences.

I’ve never had concrete career goals, that’s step one of not being bothered by challenges.

Step two, I’ve always worked at startups in relatively emerging markets, which means they are inherently new and challenging and that has fed that challenge/growth that I seek even though not necessarily tied to career growth explicitly.

I’ve only started in my 40s to care about long term career growth, so go figure.

I think the short answer is I’m highly internally motivated and seek out challenges no matter what so it’s not a thing I usually worry about.

Re: All my career rejections

#70

Post by codezero »

foobarian wrote: post #43
codezero wrote: post #9

Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally been true. That said, I encourage folks on my team to interview regularly just to know how to value themselves and to see that there are other opportunities, and…

It looks like it's pretty common to go interview just to "keep the skills sharp." What do folks think of this practice? I feel like I would have a hard time doing it while hiding my true motives. And what if they make an offer?

Here’s how to align: even if you are not interested in joining, let them know what you would leave for, or a ballpark. If it’s way unaligned then just don’t continue past initial calls.

I’ll be disappointed if I make an offer and find out they leveraged it for a promotion, but usually you don’t have to tell them anything. You can always say you just want more money and every company has a budget.

You can also just keep in touch. Most folks who would make an offer are happy to talk to you again later or even further along in your career.

I now have hired two people who I sent rejections to after four years!

Some folks will frown on this but here is my philosophy: the company holds all the power, this is you as an individual developing an understanding of that system so it’s not at all unfair, since it started unfairly tilted against candidates - not everyone will agree, but the good news is that you won’t have to talk to the people who disagree again.

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