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Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

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Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#61

Post by DoreenMichele »

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #55
DoreenMichele wrote: post #49

I am so tired of these sorts of articles. Even in a piece proposing that "autism is based on genes that are 70,000 years old and we are basically pattern seekers" they fail to really make the point "Maybe it isn't, per se, a defect at all." I imagine the author is going for that, but the article doesn't really get there. The article comes across like "Autistic guy likes his defect and wants to prettify it by claiming…

I would go further than that: It should be up for question whether the neurotypicals are actually the ones who are "retarded". Just because there's lots of a particular phenotype of a species doesn't mean they have to be the most apt at what they're doing. - I don't know if I have autism, but I can observe lots of ways of thinking which are deemed as "autistic" by neurotypicals, and to me those are always the ways of…

If you see people as defective rather than simply different and you try to force them to "be normal," you may be actively damaging them and creating a lot of the ways they are dysfunctional.

I am suspicious that some fairly large portion of problems in people who qualify for various labels is rooted in the world actively breaking them rather than some inherent shortcoming per se.

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#62

Post by kshacker »

jb775 wrote: post #59

For conversation's sake, my non-scientific guesses on this are that autism may be caused by one of the following: 1) A result of humans living longer and therefore having babies at a later age (i.e. older sperm and eggs) 2) A stage in human evolution where the human body is trying to figure out how to maximize efficient brain power in relation to amount of energy available (i.e. our caveman instincts aren't as import…

4) lower infant mortality and in general better healthcare - think about it

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#63

Post by jb775 »

dogma1138 wrote: post #37
Forge36 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sickle cell anemia? 1 gene malaria, two copies a disease (I might have cause wrong).

But that doesn’t explain the multiple genetic and chromosomal disorders that are associated with autism. It’s almost like autism is a side effect of disorders that are associated with cognitive impairment.

Does the government collect detailed information from families of autistic individuals? (e.g. where they lived, food they ate, products they used, chemicals they were exposed to, etc)

I feel like if this were caused by something recently introduced to human life (within past 100 years), we should be able to at least narrow it down using big data and deep learning.

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#64

Post by kypro »

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #55
DoreenMichele wrote: post #49

I am so tired of these sorts of articles. Even in a piece proposing that "autism is based on genes that are 70,000 years old and we are basically pattern seekers" they fail to really make the point "Maybe it isn't, per se, a defect at all." I imagine the author is going for that, but the article doesn't really get there. The article comes across like "Autistic guy likes his defect and wants to prettify it by claiming…

I would go further than that: It should be up for question whether the neurotypicals are actually the ones who are "retarded". Just because there's lots of a particular phenotype of a species doesn't mean they have to be the most apt at what they're doing. - I don't know if I have autism, but I can observe lots of ways of thinking which are deemed as "autistic" by neurotypicals, and to me those are always the ways of…

I feel bad saying it, but my experience of neurotypicals as an autist is exactly this and I've wondered the same thing my whole life.

I don't think I'll ever understand why neurotypicals get so emotional about everything. There's often been times in my life where I've tried to make indisputable logical statements based on hard facts, but someone will decide to take offence and complain because the reality isn't to their liking.

My whole life I've had to navigate around childish neurotypicals who can't handle straight forward conversations about things without getting overly emotional. Just look at what happened to James Damore because he made the mistake of trying to use logic with neurotypicals.

When I was a kid it used to really upset me. I got in trouble several times for trying to explain why various religious stories didn't make logical sense. I also got in trouble for saying I didn't like the head teacher which was an objectively true statement. When I look back now I realise it wasn't me who had the problem. If anything it was them.

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#65

Post by adanto6840 »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #30
ruined wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

autism does correlate with birth month https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296777/?report... and does seem to be more prevalent in particular latitudes, though that may be an effect of social/industrial/economic conditions.

Somali children in Sweden are 3-4x more likely to be Autistic than Swedish children: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23221308_Prevalence... 73% of pregnant Somali women in Sweden are Vitamin D deficient vs 5% of pregnant Swedish women: https://www.alliedacademies.org/articles/vitamin-dbinding-pr...

Really interesting, ty. Agree with the sibling comments, needs normalization of course, but if that doesn't warrant funding I'm not sure what does. If I can throw a few bucks at it, please let me know how!

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#66

Post by rarefied_tomato »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #32
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somali children in Sweden are 3-4x more likely to be Autistic than Swedish children: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23221308_Prevalence... 73% of pregnant Somali women in Sweden are Vitamin D deficient vs 5% of pregnant Swedish women: https://www.alliedacademies.org/articles/vitamin-dbinding-pr...

> 73% of pregnant Somali women in Sweden are Vitamin D deficient vs 5% of pregnant Swedish women You have to be careful with those claims; I believe "Vitamin D deficiency" is one of the medical metrics that isn't race-normed. But there's no reason to expect Somalis to have the same natural level of Vitamin D that Swedes do.

Given the terrible health consequences of deficiency, I think assuming racial difference in healthy vitamin D levels is a more dangerous claim that requires a burden of proof.

Melanin absorbs the UV light our bodies use to produce vitamin D.

It is an important public health issue for people with darker skin living in temperate or polar areas to get enough vitamin D.

Lack of vitamin D for people with darker skin is the inverse of paler people being at risk of burns in sunny areas.

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#67

Post by kodah »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #58
kodah wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've pondered this a lot and I mostly agree, though your harsh criticism of the flowery articles is a bit... harsh. Personally, I think when people don't get understood in outright saying their point (eg: "I'm not defective, you being a little bit more understanding would go a long way") they end up having to paint imagery for people, and this is the kind of output you get. It's also a good reminder that the function…

I didn't consider it to be flowery . My oldest son likely qualifies for a diagnosis somewhere on the autism spectrum. He was never formally diagnosed because I homeschooled him, so I didn't need a diagnosis to accommodate his needs. I was his teacher and his mom and I could be kind to my child because I felt like it without filling out forms and defending my right to help him make his life work. He thinks in pictures…

> It's possible I didn't think it flowery because of this aspect of my life. And, so, I don't know what you are talking about or what relevance that has to my frustrations with a world that wants to say "These kids are defective" instead of wondering at what widespread changes have led to this seemingly sudden "epidemic" of supposedly defective kids who supposedly have sensory issues, lack social skills, etc.

Yeah, entirely possible. For what it's worth, I was trying to agree. I think I just look at it from a different angle, or may have already arrived on the idea that, society decided what a functioning adult is supposed to do/be, and leaves no room for the idea that this is fundamental evolution at play thus people get pressured into behaving/acting/thinking neurotypically.

My use of flowery probably invokes an imagery I wasn't going for, so that's on me.

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#68

Post by kypro »

jb775 wrote: post #59

For conversation's sake, my non-scientific guesses on this are that autism may be caused by one of the following: 1) A result of humans living longer and therefore having babies at a later age (i.e. older sperm and eggs) 2) A stage in human evolution where the human body is trying to figure out how to maximize efficient brain power in relation to amount of energy available (i.e. our caveman instincts aren't as import…

Given the amount of scientific and technological progress the human race had made thanks to people on the spectrum it seems fairly obvious to suspect there would be selection pressure for autistically-minded individuals.

I'm sure there are factors that make someone more likely to present as autistic though. I think there is some evidence to suggest that prenatal hormone levels (and specifically testosterone) have some influence, and I believe some researchers have even gone so far to say that the autistic brain is wired like the male brain but to an extreme. It may just be that older woman are more likely to have suboptimal hormone levels which makes these kind of developmental extremes more likely.

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#69

Post by senorsmile »

jimbob45 wrote: post #19
irrational wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe... but anecdotally we had an autistic son born when my wife was 26. But we later had 4 more children (including 2 more boys) who were born throughout her 30s and none of them are autistic. I think there is more going on than simple advanced maternal age.

Was that a difficult conversation with your wife about whether to keep trying for kids knowing your first was autistic?

I find this a strange thing to ask.

An autist is defined as such by having the following distinct characteristics that make them unique (I have customized each criterion based on myself and my children): - difficulty in social interactions (with neurotypicals) - repetitive behaviors, superior memory and highly focused interests resulting in expert level knowledge - greater sensitivities, physically and emotionally (when compared to neurotypicals.

If I had had a neurotypical child, I'd be worried that I wouldn't know how to relate to them and that they'd have to try much harder to succeed.

Re: Is autism the legacy of humans evolving the ability to innovate?

#70

Post by DoreenMichele »

kodah wrote: post #67
DoreenMichele wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't consider it to be flowery . My oldest son likely qualifies for a diagnosis somewhere on the autism spectrum. He was never formally diagnosed because I homeschooled him, so I didn't need a diagnosis to accommodate his needs. I was his teacher and his mom and I could be kind to my child because I felt like it without filling out forms and defending my right to help him make his life work. He thinks in pictures…

> It's possible I didn't think it flowery because of this aspect of my life. And, so, I don't know what you are talking about or what relevance that has to my frustrations with a world that wants to say "These kids are defective" instead of wondering at what widespread changes have led to this seemingly sudden "epidemic" of supposedly defective kids who supposedly have sensory issues, lack social skills, etc. Yeah, e…

Talking to random internet strangers across the globe comes with all kinds of inherent challenges and I'm pretty short of sleep, so there's plenty of room for me to just not be parsing something well today.

You have a good day/night/ whatever.

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