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Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

61–70 of 112 posts

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dang really needs to get YC to develop an AI that can automatically add /s to ironic comment.

Or people could work on their ability to identify normal human modes of speech.

Given we’ve had the internet for over a generation with this issue being known that whole time, I don’t think that’s actually something we can do. Not in general, not from plain text.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attributing colon cancer to meat is, it turns out, complete bullshit, just like most other nonsense anti-meat fear-mongering (uric acid, cholesterol, etc.).

I'm not familiar with the data either way, so am reading to learn; why do you say it's bullshit?

Before I became vegetarian I read as many papers as I could about why meat is good or bad for you.

Unfortunately a lot of papers don't provide very good data regarding what kind of meat is being eaten. At least, not in what I've read; I'd love to see something better.

Some very specifically included processed meats which, to me, invalidates the study as a study about meat. Processed meats are a completely different beast. On those grounds a significant number of studies I've read are hard to take seriously.

This could be a reason people are calling it bullshit.

I'd love to see a study involving conscientious meat eating habits in which people eat mostly vegetables, some whole meats, and otherwise avoid processed foods. This is how I'd want to eat if I ate meat, but it's rare to see balanced studies.

This does, however, make some sense: most people eat processed foods where these studies are done, so they're relevant to a broader part of the population.

They should not be used to condemn meat, though.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#63
post #51

I've actually noticed this effect on myself too. It's very pronounced in fact. I have a bad habit of biting my cuticles. I also happen to observe lent, effectively going vegan for 50 days every year. Typically my cuticles heal the next day, or two at most. But every single time I enter lent, suddenly my cuticles take more than a week to heal the same amount. The difference is very obvious, to me at least.

curious what kind of lent you observe that's for 50 days not 40.

[deleted]

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#64

Not a surprise. Collagen is important for healing skin wounds, and vegans get none from their diet. (Collagen is just a protein, so it can be generated by the body, but it's easier for the body to simply take collagen from dietary sources.)

That right there would be surprising and disturbing. Collagen that shows up in the diet could arrive with subtle flaws.

Wikipedia: "as of 2011, 30 types of collagen have been identified"

Besides getting the wrong type, it could just be damaged. It also seems like an awfully big molecule to pass from the digestive tract to the blood. If that can pass through, then many poisons would also pass through.

Collagen is bigger than some viruses.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#65
post #35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure any of the vegans I know would give up veganism in order to minimize their scars any more than the meat-eaters I know would give up meat based on studies that show it can be mildly unhealthy.

Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but the outcome of this study seems to suggest there may be other healing-related issues attached to veganism.

I wouldn't be surprised, though I would be similarly skeptical that other healing-related issues would sway people one way or the other either since (at least the vegans I know) don't adopt the lifestyle for health reasons.

Very large effects are unlikely given the number of long-term vegans who seem to maintain sufficient health. Whereas small effects might be considered a worthwhile sacrifice.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#66
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

curious what kind of lent you observe that's for 50 days not 40.

If you count Sundays, it’s closer to 50 than 40.

i see, so apparenly different traditions count it differently. i had always heard of it as 40 days of lent or cuaresma etc... didn't know it could go upto 46 days.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#67
post #55
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that and the already-existing ability to create collagen/gelatin in a lab that's suitable for vegans, I've always wondered why nobody has managed to get it to market as a food. Outside of some pastry applications (eg. mirror cake glazing), it's pretty much only used for Jell-O and aspic, neither of which are particularly trendy at the moment. There's gelatin and collagen in soups as part of making broth, but…

When I was last in the USA, I was very surprised to discover all the yoghurt in the store I went to contained gelatin.

This is a consequence of the low-fat craze that peaked in the 90s but still exists. When you remove fat from yogurt, you need to add sugar and gelatin back in so it has flavor and texture.

That said, you should be able to find plenty of real yogurt in the US now.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. Emotive language aside (i.e. "damning") the low sample size is actually "more evidence" in the presence of a convincingly low p value. It means that this particular sample of 21 people would have to be extremely atypical under the null hypothesis of no difference. Therefore, given its low sample size (and thus wide standard error), it is 'some' evidence that the effect size is also probably quite large.

That doesn't sound right. The reason sample size is important is because the larger the group, the less likely the group is to be atypical. I don't think you can turn that around and then say "this group is small, which itself is evidence, because otherwise it would have to be extremely atypical to show a difference." That's completely circular. The p-value is still the important thing because the p-value is itself a…

No, effect size very much informs all of that.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3444174/

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#69
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_If_ you can get enough exercise, you can be healthy on pretty much any omnivore diet because it's so hard to not get enough nutrition, and extra calories don't matter if you burn them off. I personally lost lots of weight when I was cycling regularly to work and school (10km and 50km round trip respectively), as well as caving and climbing on weekends. Almost everything I ate was fast food, because I had hardly any…

I remember hearing the question asked someplace about whether any professional athletes are vegans, especially for the intense sports that require a lot of muscle rebuilding and maybe even contact sport healing and what not. That might illuminate things a bit.

There is an advocacy* movie called The Game Changers which highlights several vegan athletes and makes the case that their plant-based diet contributes to their success. https://gamechangersmovie.com/

* I would not consider it a documentary as it has a clear agenda, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#70
post #29
post #2

> This study suggests that a vegan diet may negatively influence the outcome of surgical scars. This is unusually damning to veganism-as-it-is-practiced if not to veganism itself. It would be interesting to see these results across a wide range of diets.

I'm not sure any of the vegans I know would give up veganism in order to minimize their scars any more than the meat-eaters I know would give up meat based on studies that show it can be mildly unhealthy.

I reject your premise that eating meat makes you “mildly unhealthy”
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