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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#61

Post by bobthepanda »

akvadrako wrote: post #49
elmo2you wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of countries (if not most) have this or something similar, anchored in either their constitution or at least in regular law. This should not come as a surprise either, since it's essentially the implementation of Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Where it usually goes wrong, is with the interpretation of the words "privacy" and "communication". Also, governments have a habit of defining…

Notably the US has no right to privacy, except a very vague implied right which as far as I know has only been invoked in the context of abortion.

It certainly doesn’t help that the Constitution has more or less ossified over the past couple decades, with amendments becoming rarer and rarer. Heck, the last one has its origins as an academic exercise.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#63

Post by buzzert »

akvadrako wrote: post #49
elmo2you wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of countries (if not most) have this or something similar, anchored in either their constitution or at least in regular law. This should not come as a surprise either, since it's essentially the implementation of Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Where it usually goes wrong, is with the interpretation of the words "privacy" and "communication". Also, governments have a habit of defining…

Notably the US has no right to privacy, except a very vague implied right which as far as I know has only been invoked in the context of abortion.

4th amendment to the constitution?

> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#64

Post by emteycz »

MikeUt wrote: post #53
matthewmacleod wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drives me up the fucking wall. Spend years bombing the shit out of countries and selling arms to despots, then having the gall to complain when refugees from the situation you encouraged turn up on your doorstep. You solve the “refugee crisis” by fostering peace and prosperity in countries that don’t have it, not by spreading lies about it.

It was the US that pushed for and did (is doing?) most of the bombing, and Europe that got hit with refugees. But even if it were the same country, it's not the same people - the wars were pushed from the top [1], the resistance to immigrants from the bottom ("populism"). [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/bush-a...

You really need to update your knowledge of history. Look at Belgian, French, Dutch and British colonial empires. Especially the Belgian one and its brutality might interest you. And the British one was active in Middle East waaaay before America.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#65

Post by nixass »

eertami wrote: post #36
aseerdbnarng wrote: post #16

“It is key for Switzerland to catch up with other countries when it comes digitalisation“ Why?

Imagine if you had to print a paper form and mail or deliver it to the local Government for even the simplest of administrative tasks. Because that is life in Switzerland.

Germany is hardly, if at all, better. For anything related to banking, insurances, taxes, rent, healthcare.. I have tons of papers

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#66

Post by 101008 »

xiphias2 wrote: post #2

Switzerland has this in its constitution: Article 13: Right to Privacy 1. All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. 2. All persons have the right to be protected against the abuse of personal data. Also the constitution can be only changed by voting.

So taking a screenshot of a Instagram convesation and sharing on Twitter or Facebook or whenever is ilegal and against the constitution?

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#67

Post by tompagenet2 »

max_ wrote: post #20
bondarchuk wrote: post #5

Almost every politician wants more power over citizens. That is why a binding popular referendum is necessary in cases like these. Congrats to the Swiss people, I am a little bit jealous.

I really admire the swiss political system & culture. It's has all the modern postulates of liberty & governance that most countries are striving for without the "scam orchestration"

The banning of minarets is a data point against this liberty.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#68

Post by warent »

max_ wrote: post #20
bondarchuk wrote: post #5

Almost every politician wants more power over citizens. That is why a binding popular referendum is necessary in cases like these. Congrats to the Swiss people, I am a little bit jealous.

I really admire the swiss political system & culture. It's has all the modern postulates of liberty & governance that most countries are striving for without the "scam orchestration"

This seems to be the largely the case with scandinavian countries in general.

I've been seriously considering leaving the USA permanently because I'm having a difficult time reconciling my morals and ideals with the taxes I pay. Ballots and debates aren't enough. I'd rather vote with my taxes and my feet, and start helping a county I believe in.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#69

Post by jrochkind1 »

ThePadawan wrote: post #22
aseerdbnarng wrote: post #16

“It is key for Switzerland to catch up with other countries when it comes digitalisation“ Why?

Because person hours are expensive (because food is expensive because person hours are expensive because socialized health care is expensive). Every process that currently involves reams of paperwork (like the ~20 page tax declaration that is due this month - yikes) that can be done digitally instead saves the taxpayer or customer money. And the Swiss do like their money.

There seems to be plenty of economic incentive for automation in the US without socialized health care.

It has occured to me though that one thing that makes automation and digitalization of society "affordable" by comparison to human labor is -- skimping on security, building this giant house of insecure fragile IT. If we were to actually pay for reliable secure systems we probably couldn't afford the computers-replace-person-hours version either, not sure where that would leave us.

The USA-ians definitely like their money as much as the Swiss.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#70

Post by nickez »

esja wrote: post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

In Sweden we have a company running the ID system and that works fine. The company is coowned by all the large banks afaik. I was really surprised at how far behind Switzerland is compared to Scandinavia when it comes to digitalisation. Being able to handle my life hassle free online instead of going to physical places (like post office, banks, gov office) is liberating. I also get all my bills digitally and all my receipts (even physical stores)
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