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“User engagement” is code for “addiction”

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Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#61

Post by mdpopescu »

andrewla wrote: post #47

This kind of semantic game has to stop. If you water down the meaning of "addiction" enough then you can say that anything is "addictive" and with that, you can carry over all the connotations of the word. Then people start saying "I'm addicted to coffee" and "I'm addicted to bread" and before you know it people saying "I'm addicted to heroin" are met with "well, why don't you just stop, like I did with coffee for a…

To be honest, I still don't understand how people use the word. Am I addicted to water? I have nasty physiological reactions if I stop using it. What about sleep? Is that a bad habit I should get rid of?

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#62

Post by hshshs2 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #29

I don't like the current trend of social media apps burying users under push notifications, calls to action, and other engagement hooks. However, there's a second, parallel problem adding fuel to the fire: The more we talk about overindulgence in social media (or Netflix, or video games, or fast food) as an act perpetrated by evil corporations on us helpless individuals, the less sense of individual agency we give ou…

These companies are spending billions to destroy your self control, it’s a nuanced situation... but they’re using absurd amounts of power to undermine us. We don’t have the high ground. They are actively and knowingly manipulating people’s emotions.

I recognized that I am not equipped to fight them, so I left and will encourage others to really think about whether or not they can put up a fight. IMO most people don’t even know they’re being manipulated and that’s absurdly dangerous.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#63

Post by [deleted] »

theplague42 wrote: post #54
tppiotrowski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide some reading material about the scientists that get paid millions of dollars to keep you hooked? This is the first time I’ve heard of scientists involved.

Literally any analyst or data science job related to growth or user engagement on social media. https://research.fb.com/category/data-science/

[deleted]

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#64

Post by Nasrudith »

8note wrote: post #48
devmunchies wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a service is monetized with ads, then the user is the product false. The derived data and access to eyeballs is the product. The user is a resource for creating the product. Some analogies: - Cows are not the product, milk is the product. Cows are a resource/asset. - Prostitutes are not the product, sex is the product. The women are resources. I feel this more accurately dehumanizing than simply stating users ar…

I don't think the eyeballs are the product. Eyeballs don't need to be advertised to because they don't spend money

Spending money is the assumption but that is unworkable as a metric for a third party. Far easier to say you did your part with x views than whatever janky curve on attributed sales would result in.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#65

Post by ckosidows »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #29

I don't like the current trend of social media apps burying users under push notifications, calls to action, and other engagement hooks. However, there's a second, parallel problem adding fuel to the fire: The more we talk about overindulgence in social media (or Netflix, or video games, or fast food) as an act perpetrated by evil corporations on us helpless individuals, the less sense of individual agency we give ou…

This is all just personal anecdote. It might be wrong for you; maybe it doesn't apply to everyone, but it has worked for me...

The options seem to be: 1) Delete your social media account 2) Set up timers (OS-level, account-level, etc) 3) Filter you feed to only the people who matter

The first two options didn't work for me. I created a new account and deleted the timers. The first option left me feeling excluded. The second option just turned SM into a drip-feed, making me check whenever the timer was up. If they work for you, great!

The option that worked was to filter facebook and snapchat to only show people who personally mattered to me in the physical world. I only see things about people I come into contact with and care about. I know them well enough to know the whole story rather than just what they post at face value. Their posts can encourage conversations rather than make me feel bad about some cool thing I'll never do or know more about.

Social media is a tool which, used effectively, can benefit you. But used ineffectively it can harm you. I hope schools of the future or some people/institution teach effective social media use. Or hopefully we can enforce social media companies to follow some regulations regarding user wellbeing.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#66

Post by Nasrudith »

I couldn't even finish reading the article - it was just back to back vapid sinisterizing cliches with no actual point. That conceited paranoid douchebag would call a Chinese takeout menu "a plot by communist China to render him utterly dependent upon them for sustance, monopolize his income and jeopardize his health with MSG".

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#67

Post by legerdemain »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #60
legerdemain wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree! The economic effects of Brexit are difficult or impossible to measure, so they're not worth worrying about. On the whole, Brexit was good for British people because it gave them a feeling of action and momentum, like they had a real "hand in history." Britain has never been as energized and optimistic as it has been post-Brexit. In the same way, I bristle at the suggestion that I'm not rational enough to res…

Your experience is far from universal. Twitter has made my life measurably worse: I'm less happy, have less free time, react less charitably to people I disagree with. I can look through my comment history and identify the periods where I was most active on Twitter, because I'm constantly flying off the handle at people for no good reason.

Would you call yourself helplessly "addicted" to Twitter? If not, then you disagree with the premise of TFA.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#68

Post by _y5hn »

tppiotrowski wrote: post #50
mywittyname wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know the common refrain is "Delete Facebook!" but that's the equivalent of abstinence-only education. We need to start talking about how to configure Screen Time on iOS, or how to use Facebook's built-in tools to hide content you don't want to see. I see it more akin to the opioid crisis. Just like drug manufactures shouldn't be pushing opioids as a way to deal with minor pain and depression because they know it…

Can you provide some reading material about the scientists that get paid millions of dollars to keep you hooked? This is the first time I’ve heard of scientists involved.

They for sure don't work on solving the climate crisis. That's unprofitable.

Wall Street gobbled up most ph.D's and researchers years ago, but marketing/ads space have a stranglehold on much of it nowadays.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#69

Post by mgraczyk »

Posts like this completely misunderstand how companies like Facebook think and operate. As a result, they cause people to fight boogymen instead of working toward positive change.

Yes, using Facebook instead of doing something like talking in person or reading a book is probably worse for you in the long run.

But most people don't do those things instead of Facebook. Instead they use Tiktok. Or watch TV. Or read Teen Vogue. Or get drunk and watch reality TV. Or sit alone in their nursing home with no real connection to any other human.

Facebook doesn't want you to be addicted, addiction is bad for user retention in the long term. Facebook wants you to be a happy, healthy Facebook Family of Apps™ user. I know this because I oversee ML launches on some of the highly controversial/addictive surfaces on a certain Facebook property.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#70

Post by ceejayoz »

tppiotrowski wrote: post #50
mywittyname wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know the common refrain is "Delete Facebook!" but that's the equivalent of abstinence-only education. We need to start talking about how to configure Screen Time on iOS, or how to use Facebook's built-in tools to hide content you don't want to see. I see it more akin to the opioid crisis. Just like drug manufactures shouldn't be pushing opioids as a way to deal with minor pain and depression because they know it…

Can you provide some reading material about the scientists that get paid millions of dollars to keep you hooked? This is the first time I’ve heard of scientists involved.

There are lots of examples of this.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/18/facebook-cambri...

> He was hired to work at Facebook as a quantitative social psychologist around November 2015, roughly two months after leaving GSR, which had by then acquired data on millions of Facebook users.

https://venturebeat.com/2014/06/07/exclusive-to-sell-ads-in-...

> Corey has been working as a quantitative researcher at Facebook since last summer. His growth research team has “two sociologists and a manager trained in communications with a sociologist as an advisor,” according to an article he published early this year. The team helps expand Facebook to developing countries. Corey uses R-based software stack, collects data via Hive and uses a few other coding languages to do his job.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every...

> We now know that’s exactly what happened two years ago. For one week in January 2012, data scientists skewed what almost 700,000 Facebook users saw when they logged into its service. Some people were shown content with a preponderance of happy and positive words; some were shown content analyzed as sadder than average. And when the week was over, these manipulated users were more likely to post either especially positive or negative words themselves.

> This tinkering was just revealed as part of a new study, published in the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Many previous studies have used Facebook data to examine “emotional contagion,” as this one did. This study is different because, while other studies have observed Facebook user data, this one set out to manipulate it.

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