Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

sciencealert.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 103 posts

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#61

Post by RamRodification »

macintux wrote: post #39
40four wrote: post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

Every time I read about octopi I'm stunned at their intelligence and ability to connect with humans. If our civilization lasts long enough, someday we'll all be reviled for eating animals, especially octopi and pigs.

How come you include pigs but leave out cows?

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#62

Post by tiagod »

mr-wendel wrote: post #23
8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote: post #13

The article doesn't mention this but that test is not very well regarded currently. It's basically a test of food security and trust in adults rather than any particular behavioral benchmark.

I think it's even worse than that. I hate this test because both now and as a kid I'd take the single marshmallow and just be done. I don't want two, even if you hand them to me back-to-back... let alone 15 minutes later. I don't care if its my favorite treat either. I believed quite strongly that a little vs a lot doesn't matter: the best parts are in the anticipation, the initial bite, and enjoying the lingering af…

The cuttlefish test was very different though. Instead of more food, it's about better food.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#63

Post by eadmund »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #38
40four wrote: post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

I believe I underestimated animal intelligence, and as an extension of that, animal consciousness. I have no proof that animals are intelligent or sentient or whatever. I do however have no reason to assume otherwise. As a result I’ve stopped eating meat almost entirely, and I suspect I’ll eliminate it entirely eventually. I still eat fish and shellfish. I struggle to understand how I disregarded animal minds for dec…

> I struggle to understand how I disregarded animal minds for decades, but I suspect it can be reduced to arrogance, convenience, and gluttony.

I don't think that cephalopods are arrogant when they eat other creatures, although I suppose they may be gluttonous. Why hold yourself to a higher standard than you hold the animals you refrain from eating?

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#64

Post by sokoloff »

please-reread wrote: post #37
sokoloff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our dog will howl along with some of the emergency vehicle sirens. Remarkably similar to the particular siren that is sounding outside. (We live on a 4 lane parkway an easy walking distance from a major hospital, so we get different sirens from many different jurisdictions. She'll sing (edit: said sign before) along or in back-and-forth with about 1/3 of the distinct sirens.)

She also can sign? That's amazing!

The comment history of this username really checks out!

I take zero offense and thank you for the correction, but it's somewhat amusing to think that someone presumably has two accounts and switches between them to make comments when a post is inadequately proofed.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#65

Post by lostlogin »

317070 wrote: post #49
40four wrote: post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

> There is a considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists. Park Ranger at Yosemite National Park (on designing secure garbage cans) https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/security_is_a...

I was talking to a kitchen hand in New Zealand in an area with Kea. He described the escalating battle to keep kea out the rubbish bins. It started with a rock on the lid which they solved fast, and then various other hinderances to keep them out.

The kea sit and watch and learn over s day or 3 and then they are back in, causing chaos.

The kitchen staff were trying to solve each puzzle with time pressure, a job to do and bad weather. The kea looked to find it funny whole the poor worker was frustrated.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#66

Post by 40four »

dunefox wrote: post #58
40four wrote: post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

> I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Well, it is objectively inferior. That doesn't mean that it's not intelligence.

Haha, ok in general you’re right. Maybe a poor choice of words. But also, in general, I believe we have vastly underestimated the intelligence of most other animals. Even ones that are demonstrably not that smart.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#67

Post by graindcafe »

RamRodification wrote: post #59
liuxiansheng wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realization that animals in factory farms have a capacity to suffer, and are undoubtedly subjected to this suffering for the majority of their lives, has made me cut my meat consumption from every meal to occasionally on the weekends. Would love to cut it out completely but have not mustered the willpower to do so. I think personally owning a pet dog and realizing they aren't biological machines simply responding…

What if the suffering could somehow be guaranteed not to occur? Since that seems to be your only (main?) reason to give up meat, would you go back to eating it if the suffering didn't happen? I think the parent comment to yours is more about avoiding meat because of compassion to the intellect/consciousness. Rather than avoiding meat in order to eliminate any suffering that may occur during "production" of it. I'm cu…

I think I'm somehow in the same situation, trying to avoid industrial farming in benefit of local, small farming. I can know for sure (for some of them) that the animal was well treated from the beginning of its life to the very end.

I am asking myself if it is better for the animal to live a decent life even if it is to be killed and ate at the end or not to live at all.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#68

Post by lostlogin »

f154hfds wrote: post #60
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.vox.com/2015/4/7/8360143/dogs-intelligence-scien... On the whole, psychologist and dog researcher Stanley Coren estimates, the average dog's intelligence is roughly as sophisticated as a 2.5-year-old baby's.

I have a 2.5 year old. A few weeks ago she (on her own) decided to dry her wet painting by taping it to the heat vent. We have never used tape in any way similar to that, and certainly have never used the heat vent to dry anything (it being a long-term safety hazard, and potentially bad for the ventilation system). She routinely falls on her face because of getting herself into ridiculous precarious situations (in di…

> She routinely falls on her face because of getting herself into ridiculous precarious situations

The clumsiness might be a different thing. Changes in height, weight, strength and sight and probably a load of other things come into this. If you change something about an adult it takes them a while to adapt.

The example that comes to mind is a pregnant woman squeezing though some gap. To any observer the attempt was obviously not going to go smoothly.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#69

Post by lurquer »

40four wrote: post #35

I agree with the main thesis of the article, stated in the first paragraph. That idea of ”how important it is for us humans to not underestimate animal intelligence” . I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light. Cephalopods have proven to to b…

> I think folks in modern times are less & less prone to thinking animals are ‘dumb’. But 1 or 2 generations ago this was not the case. I think humans for a long time have regarded animal intelligence in an inferior light.

Great post. Respectfully, though, I disagree with the excerpt above.

I find that urbanization has led to a disconnect between people and animals. In times past, a person would have regular contact with a host of domesticated animals (cattle, horses, mules, donkeys, sheep, goat, chickens, pigs, etc.) as well as the wild animals that are a part of everyday life in rural settings (rodents, possums, armadillos, foxes, coyotes, snakes, deer, birds, etc.)

Without question, people in the past had a far greater appreciation of the ‘intelligence’ and behavior of animals than modern city-dwellers.

One need look no further than the numerous metaphors that have been passed down from these non-urban times: stubborn as a mule, wise as serpents, cunning like a fox, horse-sense, wise as an owl, etc...

In short, I’d suggest that the more modern (or, perhaps, urbanized is a better word) the LESS appreciation one finds for animal intelligence.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#70

Post by liuxiansheng »

RamRodification wrote: post #59
liuxiansheng wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realization that animals in factory farms have a capacity to suffer, and are undoubtedly subjected to this suffering for the majority of their lives, has made me cut my meat consumption from every meal to occasionally on the weekends. Would love to cut it out completely but have not mustered the willpower to do so. I think personally owning a pet dog and realizing they aren't biological machines simply responding…

What if the suffering could somehow be guaranteed not to occur? Since that seems to be your only (main?) reason to give up meat, would you go back to eating it if the suffering didn't happen? I think the parent comment to yours is more about avoiding meat because of compassion to the intellect/consciousness. Rather than avoiding meat in order to eliminate any suffering that may occur during "production" of it. I'm cu…

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with killing animals for sustenance. Animals die and get eaten without needing any help form humans.

My main objection is to the manner of which animals have to be raised and harvested in the most efficient manner to satisfy the ever increasing demand for meat in the world while still being bottom of the barrel in price. Has there been any evidence this can be sustained without wholesale suffering?

If you can ensure all the meat you purchase comes from the opposite of such conditions then all the more power to you. The meat I do eat I also try to purchase from better farm conditions, but I don't think that's always possible.

Post reply on HN