The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language • Hacker News Board

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#61

Post by diydsp » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #40

bluGill wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be useful to have some signs, but don't confuse a few signs with a language. One like going to a foreign country and knowing how to ask where the bathroom is, and understanding because more their pointing than their words vs going to the country and getting into a discussion of something weird with a stranger that you just happen to meet. Sign language is a real language you can learn the language. Or you can…

Why do I always sense anger seething below the surface of any conversation about sign language?

I know exactly what you mean. My gf works at a school for the deaf and we're both hearing.... and I'm sensitive to this pensiveness you mention. Three reasons: there is so much bad info out there, asl and deaf culture are evolving as we observe, and hardly anyone is cataloging or curating the info. There are no ambassadors. It parallels health information imo. I guess I should add the contemporary attitude of self-righteousness on the u.s. when ppl learn sth abt any other group they tend to shove it others' faces. E.g. knowing that it was Illegal to drive a car with headphones on, I once dared to ask if deaf ppl were allowed to drive. Instead if a simple yes, I got chewed out by a hearing person for my ignorance.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#62

Post by harrierpigeon » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

medstrom wrote: post #50

dnndev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super powers Sign Language -> communicate with someone in a noisy room (across the room even) Braille -> A friend of mine learned braille so he could "read" books after his parents said lights out. What a rebel.

A risky habit: signing with other deaf drivers on the motorway. I've done it...

I've seen people doing that on the highway, too! It appears to generally be one gesture, and occasionally the horn is used for greater emphasis.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#63

Post by bluGill » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #22

Perhaps someone on HN knows the answer to a question I've had for years now. Why use sign language on platforms where text is accessible? I've wondered this since I first saw a TV broadcast with a signer off to the side. Isn't that what closed captions are for? Surely it's faster to read text captions than the gestures of some low-res recording of a human stuck in a tiny box in the corner of the screen. Video chat pl…

Because the native language of the deaf is sign language. Spoken language has very little in common with sign language. Text is a written form of a spoken language for those who hear so it isn't too hard to learn. For someone who can't hear it is completely different from anything.

Imagine the time where you knew something of a second language, but were not fluent yet (some of you may have never tried, but most people have done at least a little of a foreign language), watching a program in that language with subtitles in that language. That is what text subtitles are for a lot of deaf.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#64

Post by diydsp » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:15 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #22

Perhaps someone on HN knows the answer to a question I've had for years now. Why use sign language on platforms where text is accessible? I've wondered this since I first saw a TV broadcast with a signer off to the side. Isn't that what closed captions are for? Surely it's faster to read text captions than the gestures of some low-res recording of a human stuck in a tiny box in the corner of the screen. Video chat pl…

Asl is actually a diff language than English. Surprisingly, ma y ppl can understand the asl but not the textual English. For many people English is a 2nd language they understand less well than asl.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#65

Post by medstrom » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

iav wrote: post #48

The best part of Zoom for deaf people is the automatic captioning. There is one big downside of using generic video chat for signing - it’s usually optimized for clear audio, not clear video. When the connection gets weak, Zoom will drop frames but try to preserve audio. For the deaf, dropping audio is of course not a problem but dropping frames means they miss a key word in the sentence.

This could be fixed if pinning the interpreter's video feed on your screen gave it priority.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#66

Post by interestica » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

jbergstroem wrote: post #57

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another apparent misconception: sign language === ASL. There are many sign languages and many more dialects.

Swedish sign language used to be my native language due to having a deaf sister. After relocating to another part of the world and discussing languages, it surprised me how many times I had (have) to explain how "sign language" is not a language. That said; it is amazing how many sign languages can come to similar conclusions due to "always trying to find the simplest way of explaining yourself".

> That said; it is amazing how many sign languages can come to similar conclusions due to "always trying to find the simplest way of explaining yourself".

This is fascinating. Do you have an examples that stick out?

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#67

Post by bluGill » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

chaorace wrote: post #59

mercurywells wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is not always the preferred language. An user of ASL may not necessarily be as proficent in English. The government version of Teams still does not have live subtitles last I checked.

That's a terrifying sentence: "the government version of Teams". Out of curiosity, what makes it different?

I would guess that the government doesn't take the latest updates vs having a different program called teams. The government may also refuse to install some plugins.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#68

Post by bane » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #33

mabbo wrote: post #3

Two quick misconceptions to call out for those less familiar with signed languages: 1. ASL is not just English with each word replaced with a sign. It's an incredibly complex language with different grammatical rules, some of which don't have English equivalents. 2. It's incredibly flexible. Many core grammar components will remain consistent, but often if you drive to another city, many words/signs will be different…

Here's another apparent misconception: sign language === ASL. There are many sign languages and many more dialects.

There's a fascinating history on the spread of sign languages around the world to different deaf communities. IIR most sign languages derive from only a couple source languages and have very little relation to the local native language.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#69

Post by leesalminen » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

medstrom wrote: post #58

nsxwolf wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I always sense anger seething below the surface of any conversation about sign language?

I think this occurs more in some countries than others, with low sign language awareness. Maybe the US especially due to monolinguality. It seems people love to assume things about other languages that are false and can be insulting. Like when you say an English sentence to a Mexican who doesn't understand it, and you respond by saying the same thing again but louder and slower. It looks like you think they're dense.…

> Like when you say an English sentence to a Mexican who doesn't understand it, and you respond by saying the same thing again but louder and slower. It looks like you think they're dense.

My wife is learning Spanish right now because we are moving to Costa Rica. Her most used phrase is “de espacio, por favor” which means “slowly, please”. She’s able to understand much more of the language when folks slow down and annunciate clearly.

When I lived in Chile as a teen, I also asked people to do the same thing frequently until I became proficient. I still ask sometimes in other Spanish-speaking countries because their accent or dialect differs from what my ears are most used to.

Speaking slowly and clearly to anyone learning a language is incredibly useful and is not insulting in any way.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#70

Post by rblatz » Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

interestica wrote: post #66

jbergstroem wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swedish sign language used to be my native language due to having a deaf sister. After relocating to another part of the world and discussing languages, it surprised me how many times I had (have) to explain how "sign language" is not a language. That said; it is amazing how many sign languages can come to similar conclusions due to "always trying to find the simplest way of explaining yourself".

> That said; it is amazing how many sign languages can come to similar conclusions due to "always trying to find the simplest way of explaining yourself". This is fascinating. Do you have an examples that stick out?

So from my memory of ASL in college there was less worry about being rude or not offending. So if you were asked who someone was, you would start with their most identifiable feature. So if they are the only black guy in the room, or the most over weight you’d sign the black guy or the fat guy. Whereas in English it’s basically a joke now that we’d use just about any other descriptor besides those.