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The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

theguardian.com

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Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#61
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said concentration camps in China were fine The price for doing anything about the concentration camps in China is higher than anyone is willing to pay, whereas the price of putting warnings on tv shows is negligible

On the contrary, not refilming Mulan would have saved Disney quite a bit of money and some respect from the fans of the original movie.

Every remake disappoints some fans, and the biggest reason Mulan lost so much money was COVID, not the quality of the film.

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#62
post #26

Argh. My dream is that one day people will understand that a really large chunk (probably the vast majority) of piss-ripping found in humour isn't actually racist or misogynistic but is actually the complete opposite in making a statement about the stupidity of the protagonists' racism or misogyny. Fawlty Towers 6th episode "The Germans" is a classic case in point. The entire premise of the episode was not "Germans a…

So, having been an avid watcher of both The Muppet Show and Fawlty Towers, it seems to me that you have drawn a selective analogy. Both shows were sometimes deliberately taking the piss. Other times, they were guilty of thoughtlessly repeating the same kinds of stereotypes. It happens. It happened a lot in the 70s. It still happens a lot. Comedy is a dangerous line of work.

Things like this are never cut-and-dried. There is room for both celebrating the good stuff and criticizing the less-good stuff, even within a single creative work.

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#63

The same content warning has been added to 'Aladdin' (the 1992 cartoon, not the Will Smith shameless money grab). I'm wading into shark-filled waters here but could someone please explain the racist bits of Aladdin to me?

> the Will Smith shameless money grab

Did you watch it? It's actually not bad. It's different—and honestly, the parts where it holds too closely to the original are probably the weakest bits. When it does its own thing, it ends up being fun to watch. I still miss Gilbert Gottfried, though.

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#64
post #16

What does it mean to have a "negative depiction"? Would that be a depiction that is viewed by the majority as negative, or is it assessed by some objective function? Sometimes I hear people talking about "negative depictions" and "negative stereotypes" I'm either not convinced they're negative (Apu from The Simpsons) or other times I find a stereotype being depicting as overtly negative yet seemingly it's acceptable…

If you take the Speedy Gonzalez example, negative depiction means whatever middle-class, urban Americans think they can be offended about on behalf of whoever is being depicted, even if the group being depicted has totally different views on the matter.

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#65
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called breaking the fourth wall. Although, to be fair, the Muppets often break the third wall too. Normally with a cannon.

Haha, you're of course right. FOURTH wall. Maybe I was thinking about radio.

You’re right... they broke radios too!

(Can you tell I've been watching these with the kids this weekend?)

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#66
post #6

I adored the Muppet Show as a kid. Tried watching it with my daughters this weekend, since it just became available. "Dad, this is weird. This is really weird. It's not even a show! Just weird little scenes!" ["not even a show" = no connective plot] These kids have all kinds of precision-engineered laser-guided entertainment aimed squarely at their cerebral cortex. They don't need the Muppet Show like I did, I guess.

Did you try to watch “Earth to Ned” with them? It’s a modern muppet take on talk shows, also on Disney+. It is also weird, but maybe in a more approachable format.

My kids have loved both, but the Muppet show a bit less when they don’t know who the guest star is. Thankfully, there are a few guests whom they recognize (Julie Andrews, for example).

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#67
post #26

Argh. My dream is that one day people will understand that a really large chunk (probably the vast majority) of piss-ripping found in humour isn't actually racist or misogynistic but is actually the complete opposite in making a statement about the stupidity of the protagonists' racism or misogyny. Fawlty Towers 6th episode "The Germans" is a classic case in point. The entire premise of the episode was not "Germans a…

I checked out the list that someone compiled on Reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/Muppets/comments/lnwse2/muppet_show...

And I had to look up this one:

> Beverly Sills: Most likely for the Chinese Gorillla Muppet.

Yeah, that one was pretty bad. I think a disclaimer is appropriate.

I get what you're saying. There are casualties in this effort to contextualize or remove the humor of previous decades. I totally agree about the Fawlty Tower episode. But I think it's easier to have simple rules than to try to evaluate these things on a case-by-case basis. Humor is subjective after all.

> Literally the only people actually being offended are - who...?

It's not really about being offended though is it? The ones being offended and actually complaining is just the tip of the iceberg.

This kind of humor can create attitudes that can be a constant pain in the side for certain groups of people. I mean, you've still got shit like this going on today : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc1GhI1Dwyc

How would you approach this problem?

> probably the vast majority

Ugh, naw, not at that time if you ask me. Most comedians are not as smart and tactful as John Cleese. He was ahead of his time in many ways.

You can still get away with quite stereotypical humor today if you frame it correctly, and I think most comedians today are more clever about it. They're not all smarter now, there's just a better culture around it.

There was a show in Norway that was pulled from streaming because an actor was using "blackface". But that comedian/actor has a thing about playing lots of different characters (men, women, older, younger, etc), and in that case he just happened to portray a vaguely middle-eastern character. There was a big counter-reaction, particularly from immigrants saying that this wasn't offensive to them. And the show was put back online, with a disclaimer. So I think it shows that there is course-correction when the humor isn't actually in bad taste.

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#68
post #14

This will be a good case study to find out how real "Cancel Culture" concerns are. Because if you are looking for a reason to be offended, the Muppets will give you one. Females being portrayed as pigs, Swedish chefs with speech impediments, depiction of mental disease for laughs, etc. Article also refers to situations such as Johnny Cash singing in front of confederate flag. Yet, there is not one ounce of malice or…

I was always a little bothered by the casual violence on the Muppets. But that's not anything anyone wants to cancel.

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#69
post #14

This will be a good case study to find out how real "Cancel Culture" concerns are. Because if you are looking for a reason to be offended, the Muppets will give you one. Females being portrayed as pigs, Swedish chefs with speech impediments, depiction of mental disease for laughs, etc. Article also refers to situations such as Johnny Cash singing in front of confederate flag. Yet, there is not one ounce of malice or…

Will it be a good case study because it might expose "cancel culture" as non-existent, or because it might expose "cancel culture" as a tool used only to target those who don't toe the progressive line?

In other words, if the Muppets doesn't get "cancelled," is that evidence that "cancel culture" is a hoax, or is it evidence that "cancel culture" doesn't actually care about things like Swedish chefs, it only cares about conformity to a progressive worldview, which the Muppets arguably conform to?

Re: The Muppet Show: Disney+ adds content warning of negative depictions of cultures

#70
At some point these cultural sensitivities will cross a line where a majority of people will go "enough" and create a backlash. I do believe that somewhere in the future we wont get these content warnings even when they would be appropriate.

Also that Disney does it rubs me the wrong way. There is so much content in that is not racist but affect attitudes and views of children in much more unfortunate ways. And I speak from experience when not keeping an eye on my child watching Disney Channel and having to undo that damage. I'm not sure that managed to undo it totally.

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