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Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

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Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#61

Post by ttt0 »

mythz wrote: post #17
March_f6 wrote: post #11

The gall of FB mentioning the importance of news in a democratic society. They have arguably done irreversible net bad for democracies. Let em bow out.

Did you RTFA? They're having to put content moderation guards in-place: - To stop Australian publishers from sharing any content on FB - Prevent International or Australian news from being viewed or shared by Australians Failing to see how this benefits Australians or Australian news publishers.

> Failing to see how this benefits Australians

They will hopefully stop using Facebook.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#62

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

sbierwagen wrote: post #30
clouddrover wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It was of no value to them anyway. That's what the legislation is about: preventing platforms with market dominance capturing most of the advertising revenue with no real return to the organizations producing the content.

>It was of no value to them anyway. We have something of a natural experiment here on how much FB traffic is worth to news sites. We'll learn the results in a year if Australia repeals or maintains the law.

This is probably the only reason why as an Australian resident, I’m not in a rush to get the law changed.

I’m not sure how discoverability is going to be effected and that may take a while to see the effects given how locals probably know the locals news sources.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#63

Post by g_p »

quink wrote: post #8
clouddrover wrote: post #3

In contrast, Google has been making deals with Australian media companies: https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/google-nine-agree-...

Mostly because afaik the law prohibits Google as it is from delisting news content specifically like Facebook is doing now, so it was either efforts like this to last-ditch prevent the legislation from passing or face a complete shutdown in Australia.

I wonder if this is the start of a course-correction that recognises search/basic discovery of information is probably "infrastructure", and that (perhaps) large social media platforms are becoming "public places".

The way this is being brought about (the linking part) seems flawed, but perhaps if this goes ahead, it will be an interesting way to see how a future world might look where some of the damnage done by the "internet" (well, its business models) in recent years is forcibly reversed?

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#65

Post by JoshTriplett »

ahepp wrote: post #46
Rebelgecko wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "saying no" mean wrt the new law?

I haven't been able to find a source for this (apologies), but my recollection is that before threatening to leave Australia, Google threatened to simply stop linking to news sites in Australia. I believe they were told this would be illegal.

> before threatening to leave Australia, Google threatened to simply stop linking to news sites in Australia. I believe they were told this would be illegal.

This is the most unacceptable aspect of this policy. If you want to say "you must pay to link", that's bad policy that's been bought and paid for, but it at least can be worked around and doesn't compel linking or other association. But "you must pay to link and you must link" is incredibly dangerous policy for which a scorched-earth response is entirely appropriate.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#66

Post by centimeter »

sbierwagen wrote: post #30
clouddrover wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It was of no value to them anyway. That's what the legislation is about: preventing platforms with market dominance capturing most of the advertising revenue with no real return to the organizations producing the content.

>It was of no value to them anyway. We have something of a natural experiment here on how much FB traffic is worth to news sites. We'll learn the results in a year if Australia repeals or maintains the law.

It’s generous of you to assume that laws are passed and repealed based on benefit.

We already had a natural experiment, in which Australian publishers were free not to share their content on fb.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#67

Post by anticristi »

scribu wrote: post #18
endisneigh wrote: post #15

Could someone summarize both positions? It seems pretty reasonable to me - my understanding is that Australia wants Google and Facebook to pay lump sums to have their content on their platforms (as opposed to per-click). Google and Facebook can basically say yes or no. How is this different than, say, The New York Times saying the same thing about their content?

I think this article on simple linking vs. previewing sums up the issue: https://theconversation.com/webs-inventor-says-news-media-ba...

Awesome summary. It seems to me that this is a bit of a failure of the fair use doctrine. Making one preview of an image or article does not impact the author's monetisation ability. Making a business out of systematically producing previews (and adding your own ads around them) should no longer quality as fair use.

We have a joke:

A: How much is a drop of gas?

B: A drop of gas? Well, zero!

A: One million drops of gas, please.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#68

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

evolve2k wrote: post #55
endisneigh wrote: post #15

Could someone summarize both positions? It seems pretty reasonable to me - my understanding is that Australia wants Google and Facebook to pay lump sums to have their content on their platforms (as opposed to per-click). Google and Facebook can basically say yes or no. How is this different than, say, The New York Times saying the same thing about their content?

The Australian Government for ages has been trying to get the news organisations and the social media giants to come together and establish a voluntary media code that addresses concerns of multiple parties in a reasonable way. I’m sure each of you will be shocked to hear that Google & FB each have been hostile to the process form the start and have missed meetings and general behaved poorly and arrogantly in their d…

> Google & Fb know they are very powerful with limited obligations to Australians and so they are acting arrogantly and oppressively in their approach.

I don't see what's arrogant about Facebook's approach here. They say they do not derive much value from this content, and the government is proposing to charge them much more than the value they do derive. So they are left with the only rational choice: to not have the content. That's not a threat, a punishment, an attack, or anything else. It's just a decision that needs to be made in light of the tradeoffs facing their business.

The proof will be in the pudding, but I suspect Facebook will suffer minimal economic harm from blocking the news. That will be clear evidence as to who was the economic beneficiary of their relationship with the news media.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#69

Post by vinger »

worik wrote: post #58

Can anybody explain to me what the problem is with Facebook et el driving traffic to news sites? Most of the times I visit newspapers websites I was sent there from social media.

A group of people want to control what websites your friends are sharing.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#70

Post by pochamago »

worik wrote: post #58

Can anybody explain to me what the problem is with Facebook et el driving traffic to news sites? Most of the times I visit newspapers websites I was sent there from social media.

The cynical streak in me would suggest that now is a popular time to criticize major tech organs for their relationship to news, and the Australian government is hoping to use that to funnel money from US companies to Australian ones.
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