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WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

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Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#61

Post by Ericson2314 »

austhrow743 wrote: post #57
mixedCase wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well what's "liberal" here? As someone not from the US, liberal means to me what people in the US call "libertarian" or "classical liberal"; and I thought "liberal" is what you call people from the democratic party, who are left-leaning statists AFAICT. Are you just saying they aren't communists? Because communism is what's normally called far-left in most of the world.

The US is a very right wing country. If you're not from there then there's a good chance that the Democratic Party is more right wing than your countries major right wing party.

Exactly. Other countries' liberal will match the NYT.

Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#62

Post by Ericson2314 »

mixedCase wrote: post #52
Ericson2314 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The NYT has a liberal bias. Not a left bias.

Well what's "liberal" here? As someone not from the US, liberal means to me what people in the US call "libertarian" or "classical liberal"; and I thought "liberal" is what you call people from the democratic party, who are left-leaning statists AFAICT. Are you just saying they aren't communists? Because communism is what's normally called far-left in most of the world.

I am using the proper international definition of "liberal". The NYT certainly has a very US ideology, but it best fits liberal in the rest off the democratic world.

The Guardian is left of the NYT, for example.

Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#63

Post by Ericson2314 »

dqv wrote: post #59
mixedCase wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well what's "liberal" here? As someone not from the US, liberal means to me what people in the US call "libertarian" or "classical liberal"; and I thought "liberal" is what you call people from the democratic party, who are left-leaning statists AFAICT. Are you just saying they aren't communists? Because communism is what's normally called far-left in most of the world.

Really we need a venn diagram with like 10 different circles to describe the distinction between what is meant by liberal and what is meant by left here. Liberal, in this case, when contrasted against the left usually describes the politics of the neoliberal and neoconservative (and often a mixture of the two) wing of the Democrat Party. In other words, liberals are considered a sort of right wing - pro-market/pro-ca…

> we have only recently developed language in US politics to describe these differences and they have not really hit mainstream political discussion.

Well, we are just rediscovering the language used in the rest of the world the whole time, as we fix one side of the Overton window while the other side of it stretches like crazy.

Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#64

Post by ahepp »

refurb wrote: post #53
belorn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess it is this one: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-journalistic-tattletale... It basically describe the now pretty common practice of trawling social media sites and forums for something which can be made into news, conducted by very large news papers like NYT. In my view its a kind of low effort data mining when there is news droughts. Nothing to report? Then go and look up the all the employed truck…

I get your point but this one article of many written by Glenn on the topic of crappy journalism and a lack of accountability, even among the reporters at the NYTimes. This article is about a social media post, by a journalist at the NYTimes, accusing a highly visible person of using a slur that never actually happened . And once corrected, this reporter basically hides and asks why everyone is attacking her. He’s us…

Maybe I'm way off here, but it looks like you may think the person you're replying to is saying that Greenwald's article is "a kind of low effort data mining when there is news droughts" (etc)

I believe they are agreeing with Greenwald, and saying that the Times reporter is the one in the wrong.

Or this is just a vexing parse for me

Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#66

Post by simonblack »

austhrow743 wrote: post #54
simonblack wrote: post #48

The New York Times of 2021 is NOT the New York Times of 1960. Trust is lost very quickly, but it takes a long time to earn that trust back, once lost. I class the NYT of today in the same league as CNN, Washington Post, and Reuters; other formerly great news media companies that have lost all my trust. I doubt greatly whether I would ever live long enough to believe in any of these four companies again. Other formerl…

How did Reuters lose it?

When you have a broad range of news sources and you can compare them over a longish period, you start to see patterns and biases.

Reuters was one of the most surprising, for me, losses of trust. I always had Reuters 'way up there' in truthfulness, but I was forced to change my mind. These days, they stick to Establishment points of view, not necessarily the truth.

Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#67

Post by robin21 »

the_only_law wrote: post #45
shanhaiguan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words have meanings.

Not any more apparently. Fascist, socialist, communist, alt-right, neoliberal, etc. just mean whatever they need to quickly slur someone with them. Hell ever Marxism seems like it doesn’t actually refer to anything Marx or his contemporaries ever said anymore. Did you know Bloomberg is a Maoist? Fascinating how the site obsessed with their pseudo-intellectual superiority can’t add anything other than downvotes.

Imagine a discussion board where you could not use any -ism.

Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#68

Post by robin21 »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #62
mixedCase wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well what's "liberal" here? As someone not from the US, liberal means to me what people in the US call "libertarian" or "classical liberal"; and I thought "liberal" is what you call people from the democratic party, who are left-leaning statists AFAICT. Are you just saying they aren't communists? Because communism is what's normally called far-left in most of the world.

I am using the proper international definition of "liberal". The NYT certainly has a very US ideology, but it best fits liberal in the rest off the democratic world. The Guardian is left of the NYT, for example.

> In the United States liberalism is associated with the welfare-state policies of the New Deal program of the Democratic administration of Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt, whereas in Europe it is more commonly associated with a commitment to limited government and laissez-faire economic policies (see below Contemporary liberalism).

https://www.britannica.com/topic/liberalism

Do you agree with this?

Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#69

Post by robin21 »

dqv wrote: post #59
mixedCase wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well what's "liberal" here? As someone not from the US, liberal means to me what people in the US call "libertarian" or "classical liberal"; and I thought "liberal" is what you call people from the democratic party, who are left-leaning statists AFAICT. Are you just saying they aren't communists? Because communism is what's normally called far-left in most of the world.

Really we need a venn diagram with like 10 different circles to describe the distinction between what is meant by liberal and what is meant by left here. Liberal, in this case, when contrasted against the left usually describes the politics of the neoliberal and neoconservative (and often a mixture of the two) wing of the Democrat Party. In other words, liberals are considered a sort of right wing - pro-market/pro-ca…

What would you say are the three biggest policy differences between right and left or democrat and republicans?

Re: WHO scientists: NYT misquoted us to fit a prescribed narrative

#70

Post by robin21 »

nemothekid wrote: post #39
jacob2484 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Used to respect the NY times, but now it's just borderline far left propaganda

I wish NYT was far left. How does the NYT mispresenting WHO scientists to push the story that China was hiding COVID constitute "far left" to you? That is a dead on Trumpian conspiracy.

Have you read about China? Hint: they are not like us.
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