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Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

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Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#61

Post by hinkley »

robotmay wrote: post #12
nickjj wrote: post #8

> In my personal experience I found home-row typing to actually be unergonomic mostly because of the additional bend required from moving both hands closer together. I've always thought this too. I've been typing a lot since about 1996 and never got into home row typing. It never felt natural or comfortable and I don't have abnormally sized hands either. It just felt like going against the system. I don't want to jin…

The thing that always confused me about home-row typing is that it seems oddly hard to hit Enter. My only guess to that is that it works better with an ANSI keyboard than with an ISO keyboard. I also found I type rarely with my pinkies, and in fact I do pretty much only use them for Ctrl + Shift. Using the Shift on the opposite hand from the target key most of the time took some practice but I think lends itself well…

I wonder if the lot of us should compare notes.

Say I put my fingers on the home row, and don't think about them, relax. When everything is settled, I lock my fingers, pick my hands up, flip them over and look at my finger tips and base knuckles, the tips are at about a 25° angle. There is no 'bunching up'.

Hitting the enter key: 2 options for me. 1) pick my whole hand up, shift it over about one key, twist my wrist a couple of degrees, and then drop my hand vertically to hit enter. 2) lift my hand very slightly, move it down and to the right from the elbow, as if I'm trying to strike the enter key with the knife-edge of my hand, except that the pinky is extended. So my pinky hits the enter key at a 40° angle and slides across it until the click registers.

The enter key often comes between thoughts. I doubt I even notice the extra 20 ms it probably takes to hit enter and the next key.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#63

Post by danielheath »

AQuantized wrote: post #15
jarnagin wrote: post #10

A lot of people really underestimate the impact that mobility and strengthening can have addressing issues with RSI. If you're struggling with RSI, consider going to physical therapy as your condition may be caused by a wide variety of issues that aren't obvious based on the pain you're having. My own experience was that I dealt with ulnar nerve RSI for about a year. During that time I wore braces at night and tried…

What sort of exercises do you do to help with this? I've been finding it very hard to work on shoulder strength, especially the scapula, without just impinging it more

I’ve had some success. If you’re getting started, resistance bands feel safer (less likely to injure something).

Any exercise transmitting force through the shoulder forces the scapula to hold (otherwise the rotator cuff would get injured instead; learn to avoid that before starting).

Pulling a resistance band is a good start; eg stand on the band and curl up, or wrap it around a doorknob and pull across the body.

Finally, if you’re well paid, get a physiotherapist or physical therapist to walk you through the exercises; the money is well worth avoiding the injury risk.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#64

Post by robotmay »

dwdz wrote: post #13

I'm using this[1] and I love it. Adding 1 column of spacing between two hands is real game changer. I've tried Colemak and Workman before but I found qwerty-wide to be more comfortable than both of them. It's also much easier to learn, especially if you're Vim user. [1] https://www.keyboard-design.com/letterlayout.html?layout=qwe...

That’s an interesting solution! As someone who likes a wider keyboard stance this makes a lot of sense to me, and I think it’d work well with an ISO layout too.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#65

Post by fbcpck »

robotmay wrote: post #57
eimrine wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a touchtypist, I can not understand how can you touchtype while not holding your index fingers on FJ keys with sensible relief. I feel very uncomfortable if neither left nor right index finger touches those keys. And instead of having rest on the buttons, your fingers are flying, which is ridiculous from my point of view and requires an unusual level of stamina. Sorry if I am wrong, just the animation is very diff…

Haha no worries, it's actually a good question as to how it works, as I'm not entirely sure myself. I think the closest equivalent is genuinely musical instruments: I also never look at the keyboard of my accordions. I imagine a part of it is having a constant reference point aside from the fingers, such as having the keyboard in a specific place, or perhaps I'm anchoring more around the modifier keys than the letter…

I really like this explanation! I'm also able to touch-type and I'm not a home-row typist.

I noticed that my point of reference mainly the keyboard rims; once I locate the keyboard by feeling the rims with my (pinky) finger, I can just start typing. I'm using Apple Magic Keyboard for almost a decade now, it's pretty small so I'm not sure if I could do the same with standard form factor mechanical keyboard.

I sometimes use the FJ keys as point of reference too, but I don't strictly type like how a homerow typist would.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#66

Post by joshwcomeau »

I’ve learned a lot about RSI over the past year, having spent about 8 months completely unable to type or use a mouse, trying dozens of things and talking to dozens of people. And the main thing I’ve learned is that every story is unique; the right thing for one person might be an absolutely terrible idea for another.

Folks in the comments seem to be making pretty broad statements about what is good or bad, and I just want to let readers know to take everything with a huge grain of salt.

In my case, fear of making things worse was the biggest obstacle — pushing myself to trust that typing isn’t dangerous, even though it hurt, was critical in my recovery. This is awful advice for many people with RSI, though.

My advice: see a physical therapist first. They can often help, or point you in the right direction. If months pass and nothing seems to help, seek out alternative explanations and keep an open mind. Check out The Mindbody Prescription” by Dr Sarno. It was the missing puzzle piece for me.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#67

Post by lawn »

eimrine wrote: post #44
lawn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with your points I'll add that Dvorak is far from the ultimate layout. For instance just try to type 'ls', which as a command-line user you'll do a lot. People are different and will prefer different layouts. Colemak DH is a very popular and very good one, if you dislike using your pinkies the BEAKL style layouts are very good and if you have a split keyboard you might want E on one of the thumbs so RST…

Your argument about Dvorak is far from the ultimate layout because of "ls" utility is strange. I think it is really best layout and in regular typing "ls" is rare. If "ls" case bothers you, you can just add an alias. What you can not get in any other layout is alteration of right and left hands, that is what makes Dvorak ultimate.

"ls" was just an example. L being a common letter in an awkward position is another, imbalance between the hands a third and other layouts get a lower score on same finger usage (pressing two keys with the same finger right after each other). See this writeup for a bunch of ways you can analyze a layout: https://sites.google.com/alanreiser.com/handsdown#h.u8i88ask...

There are many layouts that give you right/left alternation. The BEAKL layouts for example.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#68

Post by lawn »

Symbiote wrote: post #46
lawn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with your points I'll add that Dvorak is far from the ultimate layout. For instance just try to type 'ls', which as a command-line user you'll do a lot. People are different and will prefer different layouts. Colemak DH is a very popular and very good one, if you dislike using your pinkies the BEAKL style layouts are very good and if you have a split keyboard you might want E on one of the thumbs so RST…

alias h=ls alias hh='ls -l' Job done. I strongly disagree that Dvorak is "far from the ultimate layout". Compared to Qwerty, the differences between most of these ergonomic layouts is minor, so there's no reason to discourage someone from using Dvorak. My immediate minor criticism of Colemak-DH is typing "the", or specifically "he". It's a "backwards roll" of the fingers: typing ASDF on Qwerty is easier than typing F…

Yes, compared to Qwerty Dvorak is much better and the difference between "the good" layouts is often minor.

I wasn't trying to discourage anyone from trying out Dvorak, or that Colemak is necessarily better, but to say that there are many alternatives and some might be a better fit for your own particular preferences.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#69

Post by trhway »

lukeramsden wrote: post #60
jarnagin wrote: post #10

A lot of people really underestimate the impact that mobility and strengthening can have addressing issues with RSI. If you're struggling with RSI, consider going to physical therapy as your condition may be caused by a wide variety of issues that aren't obvious based on the pain you're having. My own experience was that I dealt with ulnar nerve RSI for about a year. During that time I wore braces at night and tried…

I've absolutely noticed that my RSI / carpal tunnel flare-ups are extremely closely correlated with the closure of gyms in my local area due to pandemic restrictions. Now I'm training on bars at the park its getting a lot better.

yep, while i don't have full blown RSI/carpal-tunnel issues, the 3 decades of computer has been taking its tall on the wrists, especially the mouse one, and the pull-ups do help here as well as letting my wife practice jiu-jitsu on me, specifically those wrist handling techniques, to the extent of inducing low level pain which works as a kind of strong firm massage :)

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#70

Post by fwsgonzo »

Do things that reduce stress, and get a vertical mouse! That helped me. Working out, sitting properly also helps.

My biggest issue was and still is stress, which causes muscles to tighten all over, and it can affect different parts, from the finger to the shoulder and neck. Randomly.

A physical therapist ended up being able to explain what was happening. Doctors only told me to not type for a week or two, which at least helps to not make it worse.

Same experience with IBS. No help from doctors (I don't blame them). In the end it went away after puking my guts out from a norovirus. Contents was black as the void. After 4 years of hell it was over in a week.

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