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I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

dear.mariechatfield.com

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Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#61

Post by greatgoat420 »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #6
not_a_moth wrote: post #2

I don't know, anecdotally, relationships broke down with me and other stakeholders, and I ended up leaving the company, after I pushed hard for an amazing candidate, the first to ever ace my interviews, whereas said other stakeholders wanted a certain diversity candidate, who while I enjoyed meeting didn't do that well. The funny thing is in SF it's the bro-y white guy CEOs who push the wokeness the hardest. Almost f…

How is rejecting a candidate soley based on race not racial discrimination? This is illegal where I live; it is probably why companies never give interview feedback to the interviewees because they make these illegal hiring decisions behind the scenes but then say “it wasn’t a good fit”.

So in general companies will reject people based on race an sex all the time. In fact most of the time when candidates who are not fitting their mold come up. It is super easy to avoid pushback if you plead culture fit as an issue or just judge their responses more strongly. The person who would oversee that won't know what suboptimal solution would really mean, other than unqualified. Maybe they had an unused variable. Maybe they didn't explain themselves.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#62

Post by [deleted] »

ausjke wrote: post #35

"Since I started interviewing, we have only hired white or Asian men" -- I actually found this outright racism, it's like saying our NBA roster are still mostly black for the last few decades. Focus on the merit of them, not the skin color, like Dr.M.L.K said. It's hard to force an Asian to be a NBA player, and it might be difficult to force some black to be a coder, they all have their fields to shine, I pick this j…

[deleted]

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#64

Post by sudosysgen »

cwperkins wrote: post #54
warent wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I can share my individual perspective as a tall white guy. Sure, I've been through extraordinary struggles and life difficulties in my early adulthood, yet life is still pretty much easy mode just from the privilege. If you've ever read The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, the best way I can describe it is it almost feels like being ta'veren. Even if I'm having an off-day, not performing well, doing the wrong thi…

Are you also college educated? Under 30, middle-aged or old? Why treat "White Guys" as a monolith?

Sure, that's true. But being tall, attractive, and white, lets you get away with a lot of things were being under 30 and college educated doesn't matter as much.

For me, just growing out my hair and beard, which give away my ethnicity, result in drastically different treatment. Same for attractiveness, if I wear contact lenses and make an effort to look a certain way, life in general becomes significantly easier.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#65

Post by thefrog »

[deleted] wrote: post #62
ausjke wrote: post #35

"Since I started interviewing, we have only hired white or Asian men" -- I actually found this outright racism, it's like saying our NBA roster are still mostly black for the last few decades. Focus on the merit of them, not the skin color, like Dr.M.L.K said. It's hard to force an Asian to be a NBA player, and it might be difficult to force some black to be a coder, they all have their fields to shine, I pick this j…

[deleted]

Amen.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#66

Post by Carlton2082 »

tolbish wrote: post #12

I would hate to be a minority or woman in Silicon Valley--even if you're qualified, many of your colleagues would presume you "don't deserve" to be there (see the James Damore saga).

Have you read the original memo with the citations intact? Gizmodo published an edited version. I would agree that the memo reads like a series of bigoted conjectures if you read the edited version.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#67

Post by tolbish »

Carlton2082 wrote: post #66
tolbish wrote: post #12

I would hate to be a minority or woman in Silicon Valley--even if you're qualified, many of your colleagues would presume you "don't deserve" to be there (see the James Damore saga).

Have you read the original memo with the citations intact? Gizmodo published an edited version. I would agree that the memo reads like a series of bigoted conjectures if you read the edited version.

I have indeed read the memo.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#68

Post by MikeTheGreat »

oh_sigh wrote: post #43
warent wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was literally homeless and earning minimum wage at one point so this is something I'm familiar with.

So why is easy mode easy for you, but hard for other tall white guys? Is it possibly because there is no "easy mode"?

First - I don't know if this guy originated the term or not, but he's got an eloquent, well-written explanation about what is meant by "straight white male is easy mode for real life": His original post is here[1], along with two follow up articles [2][3]. Definitely worth taking the time to read.

In terms of why life isn't easy for all tall white guys - being tall, and white, and a guy helps but it's not everything. Some example of how it helps: As a white person I've never had to worry about being pulled over by a cop for "driving while white". A couple years ago when videos of cops shooting black people for things like 'driving away from a traffic stop' horrified me. Obviously it's wrong to drive away from a traffic stop but I couldn't imagine a police officer responding with gunshots if I did that. So yes, my race does make my life easier here in the USA.

Some ways that tall, white, male isn't helpful: none of those things directly get me money/wealth. If I grow up poor I'm going to have a tough life no matter how safe I feel around the police. Being tall is nice, and it's great being able to use the top shelf in my kitchen cabinets, but it doesn't put food on the table (at least, not directly). Similarly, what if one grew up with abusive parents? That can really f*k someone up, and while it's nice not having to worry when I hold hands with my sweetie in public a history of abuse may make it more difficult to find and sustain positive relationships with the women in my life.

So yeah - being tall, and white, and male makes some things easier, but it doesn't fix all the problems for everyone.

[1] https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-t...

[2] https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/17/lowest-difficulty-set...

[3] https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/23/final-notes-for-lowes...

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#69

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

marcinzm wrote: post #53
atlgator wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point and I agree with you, but there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem to create that inclusive environment. What other things would attract talent over Fortune 500 companies? I ask because it's really tough for SMBs to develop hiring programs without the margins the big companies have.

Inclusive environment does not mean you have a diverse team already but that you have an inclusive team. That generally means ensuring that your company feels like a safe space to candidates. That means paying very close attention to even the small things your team does especially during interviews. In my experience, minorities and women have a lifetime of training in spotting red flags early as very bad things can h…

I don't think this is as simple as you're suggesting. You mention talking over people and interrupting, but there are cultures like my own where that's just how you have a conversation. In order to fit the "inclusive environment" mold, I have to deliberately suppress my natural speech patterns, making sure I don't ever talk to my coworkers the way I would to my family.

I don't mean to claim this is the biggest problem in the world. If a company thinks they can be a lot more inclusive of other people by being a bit less inclusive of me, that's fine in my book. But it's frustrating to see these kinds of cultural impositions described as though they have no costs or tradeoffs. Cultural mismatches are hard to handle, and we do ourselves no favors by pretending that the solution is obvious.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#70

Post by warent »

cwperkins wrote: post #54
warent wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I can share my individual perspective as a tall white guy. Sure, I've been through extraordinary struggles and life difficulties in my early adulthood, yet life is still pretty much easy mode just from the privilege. If you've ever read The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, the best way I can describe it is it almost feels like being ta'veren. Even if I'm having an off-day, not performing well, doing the wrong thi…

Are you also college educated? Under 30, middle-aged or old? Why treat "White Guys" as a monolith?

The comment opens with "I can share my individual perspective" There's no intent to negate other people's struggles at all.

Here's the hypothesis. If life is like an RPG, then whiteness / being male (in America) is a passive buff you get in character creation, like "+10 Social Points"

Truly, for many people, that still isn't enough to offset the many other debuffs life can bring.

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