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Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

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Re: Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

#61

Post by fat-apple »

sneak wrote: post #54

> We will always be open source, and we make money by charging a per-user subscription for our commercial version which will contain fine-grained authz, bring-your-own OIDC and custom domains. Seems to me that these are at odds. If you're open source, why does anyone have to pay for these things? If you're open core, I think it's mighty misleading to say things like "We will always be open source" because then not on…

Thanks for your feedback! As with many in the industry, we are trying our best to figure this out.

Our intention is to be really transparent with how we build and price software, which is why our commercial features will also be public in our repo, but commercially licensed. Transparency is critical in our opinion.

This is the model we’ve seen work for other highly impactful software projects.

We’ve created a ticket to track our addition of commercial code to our repo: https://github.com/opstrace/opstrace/issues/319

Re: Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

#62

Post by fat-apple »

Denzel wrote: post #60
tailspin2019 wrote: post #52

Nicely designed site, great logo, but after clicking around a bit (and looking at GitHub) I’m confused by what this product actually is. DataDog has a UI. Does Opstrace? Or is it just a CLI/API based tool? If you actually have a UI element to your product you’re doing a huge disservice to yourself by not actually showing this anywhere... EDIT: I don’t mean to sound negative, I’m wondering if positioning this against…

The headline feels deliberately clickbait-y and disingenuous. I love and support the idea. Aspirationally, the founders may want to compete with Datadog, but OpsTrace overlaps some small percentage of Datadog’s feature set. I’m surprised the mods haven’t edited this title. Source: I’m an engineer that’s used, operated and hacked on a medium-sized prom+grafana; and used Datadog at a large, multi-region, global scale.

Thanks for your support! We’re still early in our journey when compared to the featureset Datadog has built over time, but we definitely aspire to bridge the best of Datadog and open source. Based on your experience, what sorts of features would you prioritize to get there?

Re: Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

#63

Post by fat-apple »

mrwnmonm wrote: post #50

Man, I was hoping someone would do this. Thanks very much. Please please please, care about the design. I don't know why open source projects always have bad design. Wish you all the best. and Congratulations!

Thank you! Yes, design is very near and dear to our hearts! If you’re interested in giving me some early feedback on our UX, email me mat@opstrace.com.

Re: Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

#66

Post by tailspin2019 »

fat-apple wrote: post #58
tailspin2019 wrote: post #52

Nicely designed site, great logo, but after clicking around a bit (and looking at GitHub) I’m confused by what this product actually is. DataDog has a UI. Does Opstrace? Or is it just a CLI/API based tool? If you actually have a UI element to your product you’re doing a huge disservice to yourself by not actually showing this anywhere... EDIT: I don’t mean to sound negative, I’m wondering if positioning this against…

Thanks for that feedback - we've got a lot of work to do to make that more clear! We're still early in our journey so we’re not there yet, but we’re moving fast. We're working on a new collaborative UI for interacting with your data in a way that solves a lot of problems we've witnessed with current monitoring UIs (let me know if you want more detail). It's in early development and we haven't released it yet, so whil…

Thanks for clarifying. I think all the great work you’re doing on this is at risk of being diminished by pushing the DataDog comparison so hard when really there is (currently) no comparison in my view.

Not to say you won’t get there, but why not shout about your current strengths right now (if you’re going to talk about the product) and not necessarily where you hope to be.

I only make this point because the “open source DataDog” headline just spins me off in the complete wrong direction as a newcomer and I end up confused and somewhat underwhelmed. With better positioning this wouldn’t have been the case!

That said, the project looks v interesting so keep up the good work and I hope you take my constructive criticism in the way it’s intended!

Re: Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

#67

Post by fat-apple »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #66
fat-apple wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that feedback - we've got a lot of work to do to make that more clear! We're still early in our journey so we’re not there yet, but we’re moving fast. We're working on a new collaborative UI for interacting with your data in a way that solves a lot of problems we've witnessed with current monitoring UIs (let me know if you want more detail). It's in early development and we haven't released it yet, so whil…

Thanks for clarifying. I think all the great work you’re doing on this is at risk of being diminished by pushing the DataDog comparison so hard when really there is (currently) no comparison in my view. Not to say you won’t get there, but why not shout about your current strengths right now (if you’re going to talk about the product) and not necessarily where you hope to be. I only make this point because the “open s…

Thanks for the great feedback, definitely understand where you're coming from and we'll keep that in mind moving forward! Very much appreciate the constructive criticism!

Re: Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

#68

Post by davelester »

sneak wrote: post #54

> We will always be open source, and we make money by charging a per-user subscription for our commercial version which will contain fine-grained authz, bring-your-own OIDC and custom domains. Seems to me that these are at odds. If you're open source, why does anyone have to pay for these things? If you're open core, I think it's mighty misleading to say things like "We will always be open source" because then not on…

SaaS is a common way for open source companies to create revenue, look no further than WordPress, GitLab, Databricks, DataStax, and many others. Kudos to the opstrace team for taking this path.

There’s nothing inherently dishonest when a company emphasizes their open source strategy. Open source community building is as much about shipping code as it is leading people, and that requires you to be transparent about your intentions. I’ve interpreted opstrace’s release as just that.

I think the concern about neutral project governance is an important one. It’s early days, but from what I’ve seen it seems clear what is being sold vs what is open today. The fact that the project is released under the Apache v2 license means that folks are able to reuse, distribute, and sell the project as they wish — even fork it if they dislike the direction. That said, if governance is a priority for your use I’d definitely look to project in neutral software foundations like the Apache Software Foundation and CNCF.

Re: Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

#69

Post by dang »

Denzel wrote: post #60
tailspin2019 wrote: post #52

Nicely designed site, great logo, but after clicking around a bit (and looking at GitHub) I’m confused by what this product actually is. DataDog has a UI. Does Opstrace? Or is it just a CLI/API based tool? If you actually have a UI element to your product you’re doing a huge disservice to yourself by not actually showing this anywhere... EDIT: I don’t mean to sound negative, I’m wondering if positioning this against…

The headline feels deliberately clickbait-y and disingenuous. I love and support the idea. Aspirationally, the founders may want to compete with Datadog, but OpsTrace overlaps some small percentage of Datadog’s feature set. I’m surprised the mods haven’t edited this title. Source: I’m an engineer that’s used, operated and hacked on a medium-sized prom+grafana; and used Datadog at a large, multi-region, global scale.

Sorry about that! I didn't see anything wrong with the title but I'm not familiar with Datadog's feature set. If you take the title as aspirational, it may make more sense.

Re: Launch HN: Opstrace (YC S19) – open-source Datadog

#70

Post by spahl »

dang wrote: post #69
Denzel wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline feels deliberately clickbait-y and disingenuous. I love and support the idea. Aspirationally, the founders may want to compete with Datadog, but OpsTrace overlaps some small percentage of Datadog’s feature set. I’m surprised the mods haven’t edited this title. Source: I’m an engineer that’s used, operated and hacked on a medium-sized prom+grafana; and used Datadog at a large, multi-region, global scale.

Sorry about that! I didn't see anything wrong with the title but I'm not familiar with Datadog's feature set. If you take the title as aspirational, it may make more sense.

It's definitely aspirational. With time and work the features gap (for the important ones) will narrow:-)

What we want to emphasize is that it is possible to build this and have the advantages of a Datadog without the drawbacks.

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