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18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

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Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#61
post #9

Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines? From what I know, the COVID-19 vaccine is only effective in reducing symptoms for those who get inoculated. Is it accurate to say this vaccine does not prevent infection or help develop an immunity? I just do not understand how vaccines work. Would love a (peer-reviewed) source or sources I could read to brush up. This is not a political o…

As I recall from the news around the time the Pfizer vaccine was approved, the results from the people given the vaccine (vs. the placebo) was that it both reduced the rate of people who tested positive for the virus, AND reduced the severity of the symptoms to the point that the hospitalization rate was way down and the death rate was zero.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is quite sure but we're a LONG way from it.. and that's without addressing the fear/trauma that's been inflicted on otherwise healthy+exceptionally low risk people. From a month ago: Dr. Anthony Fauci now says as much as 90 percent of the population may need to get vaccinated or infected to achieve herd immunity against COVID-19 — admitting in a new interview that he has been intentionally raising the bar base…

People are so impatient nowadays.

I can't blame them. Rent is due on the first of the month even during a pandemic.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#63
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

Should be 1 - 1/R0, right?

Yes, but R0 is likely going up with the UK strain.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number I have seen quotes form Dr Fauci is 70-85%. However I have seen no studies so far that show that either of the vaccines used in the US slow down the spread of COVID, just that they prevent severe cases. Also neither has been tested in children under 16 which is obviously a large population.

.7 * 331m =~ 231m. If we average 1 million per day, we have 231 days to go, which is Aug 25th.

That's single dose, so you gotta double it. And account for like 40% of the country that are not sure if the pandemic is real and/or if the vaccine is designed to have Bill Gates track them. And the fact that kids can't get it yet (and who knows when we will know), which would severely slow things down.

Right now we are production-constrained, and somewhat distribution constrained since every state is handling it differently. But soon enough we will be constrained by people's unwillingness to get vaccinated, and then things will get really fucking annoying.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#65
post #9

Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines? From what I know, the COVID-19 vaccine is only effective in reducing symptoms for those who get inoculated. Is it accurate to say this vaccine does not prevent infection or help develop an immunity? I just do not understand how vaccines work. Would love a (peer-reviewed) source or sources I could read to brush up. This is not a political o…

Your body has two types of immune response, one called an innate immunity, which basically is programmed to attack certain types of pathogens at birth, and another an adaptive or acquired immunity. Vaccines target the adaptive immunity.

If we only had an innate immunity, viruses and other pathogens would learn to bypass it by hiding or disguising themselves in various ways. In order to counter this, our bodies constantly learn to recognize new pathogens. This is done by breaking down viruses into protein parts called antigens and creating antibodies that bind to those parts. Think of it like a lock and key.

Viruses typically have many proteins that can serve as these antigens on the surface of their cells. Many of these protein structures are actually used by the virus to bind to cells in our body and enter them.

Once antibodies to those antigens are being produced, they’re able to lock onto those surface structures and interfere with a viruses ability to function.

So a vaccine is simply a way to introduce those antigens and surface binding proteins in order to cause your body to generate an antibody immune response.

Another key component is that once your immune system creates antibodies, it “remembers” them through certain memory cells that are able to quickly produce the same antibody when needed at a later date.

Now all that sounds pretty simple, but the details get complicated, which is why vaccine effectiveness varies. Oftentimes certain types of viruses change their outer proteins so often, that a vaccine targeting one strain produces an immune memory that doesn’t work well with the next mutation.

Or other times the antibodies only bind to certain proteins that only partially interfere with virus infection. Or in some cases the way the vaccine is produced means that the antigens change subtly during the process making them less potent for good antibodies.

These new COVID vaccines are actually a method if introducing specific and accurate antigens to our immune system in a novel way. In this case it’s a bit of RNA that causes our cells to generate the antigen proteins themselves. It has the promise of being able to produce antigens of greater number and specificity than other methods. It’s basically using the same process as many viruses themselves (rna getting our cells to produce proteins) meaning our immune system is primed to take advantage and produce stronger immunity.

So the short answer is these vaccines are likely to produce strong and lasting immunity to the coronavirus they are targeting. What is unclear however is how fast this new strain of coronavirus will mutate into strains requiring more yearly shots to deal with changing antigen profiles (like the annual flu).

So the unknown is simply how this virus will evolve... if we’re lucky mutations that significantly change the surface antigens targeted by these vaccines will also mean the virus either becomes less contagious or less deadly.

If you’re truly interested I highly recommend this book on how the immune system works, full of excellent sources.

https://www.amazon.com/Elegant-Defense-Extraordinary-Science...

More technical information on Wikipedia’s immunity sections:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_immune_system

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigen

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#66
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are almost immune from the virus. Everyone below 40 is also extremely extremely unlikely to die from the virus, just to a lesser extent.

First, that’s factually incorrect. Second, children can transmit COVID even if they don’t get severe cases. Ever send a kid to school or daycare and then spend a year or two sick with everything every child in that school or daycare had? Kids spread cold/flu like viruses probably faster than anyone.

This is one of the problems with the newly-developed vaccines. It's not clear if they confer sterilizing immunity, so it's not clear if a smaller percentage of people getting the vaccine will stop the disease spreading. Therefore, it may be necessary to get most people vaccinated if we don't want the disease around at all.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#67
post #8
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

Hopefully the decisions will be data driven like they are now. When the number of new cases, positivity rates, and deaths in a given region fall below specific thresholds, the next phase of opening up happens in that region. Then those numbers start to increase, then restrictions start going back in place. The same as it has been since the start of this pandemic. With those that are the most vulnerable (front-line wo…

Decisions like this are never fully data driven, as those "specific thresholds" will be different for different people.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#68

Does anyone know where I can find how many doses have been distributed to each state and how many are stockpiled federally or by the manufacturers? That’s the info I really can’t seem to find and it would be really interesting to see. Also would love to see production numbers day by day if possible. The simplistic estimates I keep seeing on places like CNN basically just take the current daily vaccination rate and us…

Search for 'Bloomberg Vaccine tracker'.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#69
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Americans have already stopped complying with public health recommendations. Or they never put on a mask to begin with. It's like a teacher who tells a class to line up so they can be dismissed but someone doesn't go along and drags out the whole process.

One might reasonably believe that clearly defined exit criteria might boost compliance if chosen carefully with community input. I can see the other side of things. In my opinion we are doing a very poor job of meeting people’s needs.

People were only in this together for a few weeks in March and April. I can somewhat understand as losing one's job is losing almost everything in America. Our leaders frittered away two months of advance warning, provided contradictory advice on masks, and botched creating a test. Compare the United States with Korea which had their first confirmed case on the same day.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#70
post #9

Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines? From what I know, the COVID-19 vaccine is only effective in reducing symptoms for those who get inoculated. Is it accurate to say this vaccine does not prevent infection or help develop an immunity? I just do not understand how vaccines work. Would love a (peer-reviewed) source or sources I could read to brush up. This is not a political o…

I'm no expert but I'll share what I've learned so far, YMMV.

>Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines?

Here are the traditional vaccine types: https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/types

COVID-19 vaccines are all (to my knowledge) a new type called an 'mRNA vaccine' - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...

These are basically the same as the 'subunit' type of vaccine, with the difference being that your body produces the subunits directly through instructions in the mRNA that is in the vaccine. In this case the mRNA in the vaccine instructs your cells to create copies of the 'spike protein' portion of the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19. After being created by your own cells, these proteins enter the blood stream, trigger an immune response and ultimately immunity to viruses having that spike protein.

This is extremely targeted immunity vs. natural immunity generated by an infection, in which your body will create antibodies for all sorts of proteins in the virus. The broader resistance from natural immunity sounds good, and does have some benefit, but it also increases the risk of making your body react to its own tissues, creating an autoimmune condition. On the other hand, one potential downside of the mRNA vaccination is that if the virus mutates the spike protein sufficiently to resist the antibodies generated by the vaccine, you're back to square one.

> From what I know, the COVID-19 vaccine is only effective in reducing symptoms for those who get inoculated. Is it accurate to say this vaccine does not prevent infection or help develop an immunity?

As others have mentioned immunity does not mean 'zero infection', it simply means that your immune system is primed to stop the infection quickly by having antibodies for the spike protein.

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