What’s the incentive for companies to pay European devs more?
Ability to attract and retain talent better than their peers?
Alternatively: What's the incentive for firms in the US to pay high wages?
Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
61–70 of 974 posts
Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#62You need to increase demand: * Offer tax breaks for tech startups. The UK has a whole suite of these and London is number one in EU (out of now) for tech startups * Similarly non-tax pro-entrepreneur reforms and help: bankruptcy protections (the US does this very well, the UK very badly); access to mortgages / leases and credit for the self employed; better management of taxes and benefits; reform of regulation for s…
Reading about how the bankruptcy system works in the UK a few years ago (when Thomas Cook collapsed) was mind blowing. How could any system where the firm has to cease operations immediately no matter the circumstance be considered a good idea?
Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#63I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…
I don't think you've fully thought through your position. You making less isn't some altruistic thing. You making less directly contributes to your (already likely wealthy) boss making more. It's not like you making less means the poor live better lives, it's essentially donating money to your employer.
Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#64Just like anything worthwhile is done: through free market competition. Build a successful startup, make some nice money and attract the best in the business to work for you by making them eye-popping offers. This will make your competitors react by raising their pay and with it the whole market. It’s how Silicon Valley reached those salaries after all...
> Just like anything worthwhile is done: through free market competition. Dont know where to begin unpacking the falsehood of this. Maybe a counter question serves best: how is non-competitive behavior not worthwhile?
I can't speak for OP, but I can say that OP never said non-competitive behavior isn't worthwhile. The question being answered is how to increase salaries, not how to make something worthwhile.
Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#65Lower income tax. Lower corporate tax. Eliminate onerous labour laws. Eliminate unnecessary regulation. Improve English education. Raise public sector tech salaries. Stronger accounting and capital market regulations. Stronger contract laws.
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Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
In 3 years in the US you earn significantly more than in 5 years in France, so the vacation and health coverage arguments do not hold, unless you have an expensive illness (>30k$ per year). The job security on the other hand is very real, so if you want to coast at your job, europe is the way to go.
There is absolutely no way to get 500k/year from being just an engineer in Europe. I recall the React creator's base salary is 100k/year in London, and he works at Facebook.
It is absolutely possible at FAANG companies (eg partner level at MS, principal level at G) and other publicly traded (US) companies or startups. Most of it is in stock.
Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
In 3 years in the US you earn significantly more than in 5 years in France, so the vacation and health coverage arguments do not hold, unless you have an expensive illness (>30k$ per year). The job security on the other hand is very real, so if you want to coast at your job, europe is the way to go.
> In 3 years in the US you earn significantly more than in 5 years in France, so the vacation and health coverage arguments do not hold, unless you have an expensive illness (>30k$ per year). Care to elaborate? Especially the part about vacation. Do you mean that US developers will retire early than their European counterparts because they are earning more in average and by doing so will enjoy more free time? I'd rat…
In the US as a software developer you can and do get more vacation than the US norm, so keep that in mind.
Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#68I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…
I don't think you've fully thought through your position. You making less isn't some altruistic thing. You making less directly contributes to your (already likely wealthy) boss making more. It's not like you making less means the poor live better lives, it's essentially donating money to your employer.
There's cultural differences here depending on where the employer is based. I believe the employee-CEO pay gap is substantially less for many European companies (excluding UK).
Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
In 3 years in the US you earn significantly more than in 5 years in France, so the vacation and health coverage arguments do not hold, unless you have an expensive illness (>30k$ per year). The job security on the other hand is very real, so if you want to coast at your job, europe is the way to go.
I make pretty good money as a consultant. Last year I had 180 hours of saved vacation time (4.5 weeks). I gave up 115.5 hours of that on January 1 because I didn't use it. I expect I will lose a similar amount on next January 1st. I did get 6 federal holidays off. I used a bit of vacation to also take the day after Thanksgiving, the day before Christmas, and New Year's Eve off. I paid $8400 in insurance premiums for…
$200k is £146k
I've seen mid-level tech jobs in London banks for £146k which come with 34 days off including state holidays like new years day, christmas, etc
£146k for a full time contractor on 226 days a year isn't that much at all - £650 a day, which is in the "Senior developer" range [0]
With 30% tax in the US and the cost of health insurance, that would be $68,400
For a staff employee on £146k (which is quite achievable in finance), taxes would be 39.5%, or $79k in tax [1] (there's also local property tax, but that's in the ballpark £1k-3k a year depending on the size of your house). Tax could be potentially lower as a contractor if you're clever about distributing your income, but I know they've been clamping down on some avoidance schemes.
No idea what a HSA account is, I guess some form of pension plan? That tends to come off pre-tax.
[0] https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/contracts/uk/senior%20ui%20dev...
Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?
#70Make non-competes illegal (or, well, unenforceable).