Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation • Hacker News Board

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#61

Post by throwaway91627 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

supernihil wrote: post #57

throwaway91627 wrote: post #8

Learned this the hard way. Spent the last 7 years grinding text books resulting in a place on a Masters in CS and a ~$200k income while working remotely from the UK (without a degree, at 26). Whole purpose was to earn as much as I could and it took over my life. Now I’m on antidepressants and overweight. Recently quit my uni course and job, and settled for a role around $65k with a New Years resolution to never be a…

this is really interesting!!! i am considering a drop exactly like that except from 100k to 62k in order to clear up the anxiety induced helltrain i'm currently on, asked about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25765287 sounds like you made the right choice, i am getting more and more convinced about sacrificing the career to get time for treating myself and the family better

I think it’s really worth considering, but don’t do it off of my post :) Chat to your family about it but also consider speaking to your doctor about anti anxiety counselling/medication. Helped me get through a lot of it.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#62

Post by TrackerFF » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

One thing I've seen, time and time again, is that workaholics tie their identity to their employment. Everything revolves around work, and they pretty much become their work. Work is the place where they live. Co-workers, clients, associates, and what not are the majority of people they interact with. Work is what occupies their mind.

When they then lose that - either through retirement, unemployment, or what not, it turns ugly. Especially if they're also the sole provider (in their household.).

My only tips are to create rules for yourself, and try to follow them - as well as finding one or more hobbies. The more passionate you become with some hobbies, the less you only think about work.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#63

Post by ThisIsTheWay » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #16

After our second daughter was born with a disability and we didn’t know if she’d make it to her first birthday I threw myself into my new job utterly. I was working 7-7 almost every day, took every opportunity to travel, and in general was absent from the situation as much as my “very important job” would allow. For me I felt completely powerless at the hospital. At work I got to solve “important” problems that were…

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing this. It's not easy to be vulnerable, especially when it comes to emotional intelligence and what you could have done better. I'm happy to hear your family is doing well.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#64

Post by thebean11 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #30

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on t…

> If your job is your whole life and you are not making +200k: GET A LIFE

Tons of people on this forum are making that much, would not recommend workaholism for them either

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#65

Post by rimiform » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

It would be interesting to see the literature evolve beyond the current (simplistic) model of workaholism. The current paper isn't super clear on what their working definition is (to me), but seems to be "a compulsion or an uncontrollable need to work incessantly".

How does that relate to actual work demands? The paper says that the effort put in must beyond what is "necessary", but this is pretty vague, and would seem off in different contexts. Am I a studyholic if I study for an A instead of a simply 'sufficient' C? Should we call parents who stay up helping their kids finish a school project due tomorrow parentaholics? What is the 'correct' amount of effort to be expended so that the scientific literature won't label you as having a mental health problem?

Aside from that, can this even be extricated from simple enjoyment of work? One cited paper says:

> Cantarow (1979) suggests that workaholics are those who seek passionate involvement and gratification from working. Finally, it has been observed that hard-workers often use the word ‘fun’ to describe their work experiences (Kiechel, 1989; Machlowitz, 1980). Thus, it seems that workaholics typically find working pleasurable.

The horror! From that same cited paper:

> Therefore, in this paper, workaholics are defined as those who enjoy the act of working, who are obsessed with working, and who devote long hours and personal time to work. In short, workaholics are those whose emotions, thoughts, and behaviors are strongly dominated by their work.

If I actually enjoy my job, of course I'm going to spend more time on it! And if I don't like to exercise, or play parent, or if I only eat what I need to keep me alive, that's going to look like workaholism, even though it's just someone doing what they enjoy as much as they can. That's going to lead to neglect of other things, because there are only so many hours in a day. That's an important part of the definition, by the way, neglecting "other parts of life" is seen as a central component of workaholism, but this obviously applies to every activity, be it studying, exercising, parenting, whatever. Are we supposed to think up a portmanteau for each of these to signify individuals who 'overindulge' by our judgment?

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#66

Post by mrkstu » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #40

honkycat wrote: post #30

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on t…

I found it interesting that you put a price tag on it. Also, $200k is about $150k more than most people make, but if you look at just the workaholic population and isolate for industries such as finance and law, many people in that group are going to be within the shooting range of that threshold. And there you have it - even within your own framework, it becomes understandable why we have so many workaholics. My poi…

The difference is if you can get enough distance between your expenses and your income, you can completely escape the rat race in a significantly earlier timeframe.

For many outside of the ultra high cost of living zones, 200k is about that cut off level where you can reach escape velocity.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#67

Post by nomy99 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

I literally worked till I dropped during the holidays. I was committing code, got up to stretch, hit my head on furniture and passed out lol. I don't think I am workaholic. This happened because the project was mismanaged and failure to delivery would cost the company a large sum of money (due to contract negotiations with vendors etc)

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#68

Post by abcdjdjd » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

justathrowa wrote: post #56

honkycat wrote: post #30

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on t…

>But that doesn't mean it is a healthy way to spend all of your time. Dunno about that. Just a personal anecdote, but this year my boss specifically told me to work less, slashing my salary down by $10,000 a year to emphasize the point. Prior to this, 200 to 240 hours a month was pretty typical and has been for the last 8 years. (I doubt it's out of real concern for my health, my workload hasn't been reduced). What I…

>As such, could you really say that is working long hours such is really unhealthy? Or such a terrible thing?

Yes, yes it is. It sounds like you are simply using work as a distraction from your problems instead of addressing them.

Our society is becoming more and more disconnected as everyone is working way too much. We should be working less, not more.

Less work means people can spend more time doing things they enjoy, socializing, doing things they need to do outside work, and having more time to relax and probably sleep.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#69

Post by thebean11 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

justathrowa wrote: post #56

honkycat wrote: post #30

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on t…

>But that doesn't mean it is a healthy way to spend all of your time. Dunno about that. Just a personal anecdote, but this year my boss specifically told me to work less, slashing my salary down by $10,000 a year to emphasize the point. Prior to this, 200 to 240 hours a month was pretty typical and has been for the last 8 years. (I doubt it's out of real concern for my health, my workload hasn't been reduced). What I…

I'm sure there's lots of unhealthy things that will make you temporarily not feel suicidal..I feel great after 5 tequila sodas but it's obviously not good for me. You should really get help

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#70

Post by supernihil » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

throwaway91627 wrote: post #61

supernihil wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is really interesting!!! i am considering a drop exactly like that except from 100k to 62k in order to clear up the anxiety induced helltrain i'm currently on, asked about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25765287 sounds like you made the right choice, i am getting more and more convinced about sacrificing the career to get time for treating myself and the family better

I think it’s really worth considering, but don’t do it off of my post :) Chat to your family about it but also consider speaking to your doctor about anti anxiety counselling/medication. Helped me get through a lot of it.

dont worry, not doing these decisions lightheaded :-) just wanted to express that i admire the thought of skipping the "money making mission" i am on to take care of the real things i care about being my family and my head. I hope you all get a great 2021!