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China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

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Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#61

Post by quonn »

Barrin92 wrote: post #52
DaedPsyker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CCP is mostly at fault. They wanted to control and limit discussion and even news on alibaba so of course people are going to speculate in the absence of information.

Misunderstanding about the inner workings of China isn't the CCP's fault, at least not at this level. The discourse about China, misunderstandings about how the Chinese systems functions, and lack of even a basic interest in getting a realistic view of China are rampant. The average view of China in the US is so cartoonish it's quite ridiculous. If you talk to an educated, middle-class Chinese audience about the US p…

> The discourse about China, misunderstandings about how the Chinese systems functions

It functions like a dictatorship functions. The dictatorship of the party.

> And it's actually a huge problem for the West that both government and citizens do not engage China seriously.

The West will mostly separate production within about a decade or two. It‘s not a problem at all.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#63

Post by 88840-8855 »

star-trek-fleet wrote: post #36
xyzelement wrote: post #10

I was thinking about nationalization separately from this. The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth. I wonder if the Chinese are really long term interested in honoring the equity. Meaning - take the money now, grow the businesses and the economy and then at some point say "It's stupid that we're letting foreigners have 20% (or whatever) ownership o…

> The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth Chinese people are jointly invest in that venture, by (not limited to): * Sacrifice family and personal time, by hundreds of millions of passent migration workers. * Sacrifice health and life quality, even today 996 still a norm, and you can imagine what have been since the opening up * Environment, early p…

Great post!

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#64

Post by SkyMarshal »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #54
bmitc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's it working in the U.S. where billionaires are dissolving the U.S. government?

It is working well in my opinion. I would rather live in a world where billionaires are happy to dissolve a corrupt and disgusting politician than other way around.

I wouldn’t. Billionaires can be corrupt and disgusting too, and unlike politicians, are unaccountable to the citizenry. Important difference.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#65

Post by caycep »

orange_tee wrote: post #32

The West thought once China is full of billionaires, the billionaires having all that wealth would then have the power to oppose and dissolve the CCP. Didn't go as planned.

turns out the billionaires love the CCP when that system/state sponsored companies is the source of their billions...

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#66

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

whimsicalism wrote: post #51
orange_tee wrote: post #32

The West thought once China is full of billionaires, the billionaires having all that wealth would then have the power to oppose and dissolve the CCP. Didn't go as planned.

I have serious issues with China. But I also think that there are lessons to learn from many different models. The ability of the government to take on actors with vast amounts of private capital is, in my view, one of those things worth learning from.

Our government has the ability to do the same in the US. What's lacking is not ability. It's lawfulness and a consensus of what the goal should be. In China there is little need for lawfulness and certainly much less need than in the U.S. for consensus.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#67

Post by reaperducer »

thewarrior wrote: post #30
xster wrote: post #3

Is it me or there's some cognitive dissonance going on with the whole article discussing the ramifications of a nationalization without describing at all what sourced this "news" in the first place? A cursory search seems to show this is a regurgitation on a sourceless Radio Free Asia article ( https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/alibaba-probe-1225202... ) from December?

Radio free Asia has deep ties to US agencies. It isn’t really a credible source.

Radio free Asia has deep ties to US agencies.

"Deep ties to US agencies" is sensationalizing the facts. It's part of the United States government, and nobody has ever tried to keep that secret. Not RFA, not the U.S. Government. Nobody. "Deep ties" makes it seem like it's trying to be covert. It's not.

It isn’t really a credible source.

It's one of the more credible sources of news in Asia. Especially for more authoritarian countries. I used to know a number of its journalists, and they strive for neutrality and factual reporting in places where that is not allowed.

It's the Asian version of Radio Marti, or Radio Free Europe. Funded by the U.S. taxpayers, run by the U.S. government, to bring information to the world. There's nothing new here. This has been going on longer than most of us have been alive.

It's like BBC News, but without all of the sensationalism that has crept into the Beeb over the last couple of decades.

Trying to paint it as some kind of covert propaganda machine illustrates a lack of knowledge, or a personal political agenda.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#68

Post by ashleshbiradar »

whimsicalism wrote: post #51
orange_tee wrote: post #32

The West thought once China is full of billionaires, the billionaires having all that wealth would then have the power to oppose and dissolve the CCP. Didn't go as planned.

I have serious issues with China. But I also think that there are lessons to learn from many different models. The ability of the government to take on actors with vast amounts of private capital is, in my view, one of those things worth learning from.

Sure, once you master the art of eradicating ideas of basic human rights and using authoritarian methods to control an entire nation with literally no independent bodies to check the power. You control the banks, the businesses, the army, the judiciary, the media, the internet, literally every sphere of a society. It becomes an easy peasy thing to do what you say is worth learning.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#69

Post by naringas »

thewarrior wrote: post #30
xster wrote: post #3

Is it me or there's some cognitive dissonance going on with the whole article discussing the ramifications of a nationalization without describing at all what sourced this "news" in the first place? A cursory search seems to show this is a regurgitation on a sourceless Radio Free Asia article ( https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/alibaba-probe-1225202... ) from December?

Radio free Asia has deep ties to US agencies. It isn’t really a credible source.

> It isn’t really a credible source.

are there any "credible sources"? nowadays eveything is biased. the trick is being aware of the biases in your sources and reading sources with different biases.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#70

Post by foobarian »

Barrin92 wrote: post #52
DaedPsyker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CCP is mostly at fault. They wanted to control and limit discussion and even news on alibaba so of course people are going to speculate in the absence of information.

Misunderstanding about the inner workings of China isn't the CCP's fault, at least not at this level. The discourse about China, misunderstandings about how the Chinese systems functions, and lack of even a basic interest in getting a realistic view of China are rampant. The average view of China in the US is so cartoonish it's quite ridiculous. If you talk to an educated, middle-class Chinese audience about the US p…

Would love some pointers to read up on. I am imagining something that talks about how provincial governments work, any factions at play, day-to-day politics of getting things to happen whether by official process or informal etc.
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