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Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

hongkongwatch.org

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Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#61

Post by CogitoCogito »

echelon wrote: post #53
CogitoCogito wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can't hide it. And of course it's possible they may decide to attack Taiwan if it were attempted. It's also possible that not doing so _guarantees_ an attack by China. It's all a balance of probabilities. One could very well rationally decide the likelihood of China attacking Taiwan decreases by putting a base there. I'm not saying that conclusion is guaranteed correct, or that you should agree with it,…

Offer statehood first. If China attacks a US state, they've declared war.

I don't think it's a good idea to nurse this idea for the following reasons:

1. I don't believe Taiwanese want to be part of the US. They already have their own country. 2. The US shouldn't counter the Chinese imperialist ambitions of annexing Taiwan by doing something that could be viewed as the same thing. 3. It's not really necessary for what you want. The US could enter an open alliance with Taiwan if it wanted to making a Chinese declaration of war against Taiwan a declaration of war against the US. 4. The US should make a stand that the independent country of Taiwan has a right to exist and support that right alone not precondition on joining the US.

I could go on, but I think this "Taiwan becomes a US state" thing that I see repeated a lot is just plain silly.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#62

Post by ceejayoz »

thepasswordis wrote: post #56

How do people seriously not see the parallels here? The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds. HKers say they want democracy and fair elections. CCP and most Chinese think that's bullshit. MAGAs say they want democracy and fair elections. Most of the US Gov as well as mos…

> The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds.

We're not counting the President of the United States as part of the US Government?

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#63

Post by justinzollars »

Counterpoint. Everyone I meet in SF is against colonialism.

Have you considered that Hong Kong is part of China, was taken as a colony, Democracy was introduced and by supporting a different system of government, in a country that isn't yours, is a form of internalized colonialism?

Our country [The United States] is literally falling apart.

Our biggest problem in the west is our tendency to export our problems. China is internally focused, and will solve its internal problems in Hong Kong. Whether you like it or not. It's simply how they operate considering their 5,000 year history.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#64

Post by thepasswordis »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #47
thedudeabides5 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be risky for China, but if you actually read Chinese media (or even the halfway house that is the SCMP), you can see to them it's not a question of IF but WHEN... https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/united-states/a...

I know and it's scary. That doesn't mean an attack will actually happen though. And even if it does happen, that doesn't mean it'll succeed.

What downside does China have? Nobody will stand up and do anything to stop them.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#65

Post by vanilla-almond »

Arubis wrote: post #8

This timing is unsurprising; it’s clear there’s nobody at the wheel in the U.S. for a couple of weeks, lowering the odds of reprisal during this window of opportunity. What would shift this? Does the E.U. have sufficient clout?

The EU has clout but is unlikely to do anything that might threaten investment ties between China and the EU. Investment (and the promise of jobs) takes priority over human rights concerns:

https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-drive-for-eu-china-...

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#66

Post by Ekaros »

arcticbull wrote: post #42
knolax wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A century old treaty signed at gunpoint can be dissolved at gunpoint.

That’s not how international obligations work. Most borders were defined at gunpoint but we generally don’t allow for arbitrary redefinition when the loser gets uppity, Crimea aside.

Then again, if the old loser is the new winner. They get to define the rules...

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#67

Post by thepasswordis »

ceejayoz wrote: post #62
thepasswordis wrote: post #56

How do people seriously not see the parallels here? The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds. HKers say they want democracy and fair elections. CCP and most Chinese think that's bullshit. MAGAs say they want democracy and fair elections. Most of the US Gov as well as mos…

> The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds. We're not counting the President of the United States as part of the US Government?

Is this a joke? Trump is the most anti-CCP president in the last 40 years.

Please watch this Pompeo speech if you want to know how the Trump admin feels towards China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7azj-t0gtPM

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#68

Post by anovikov »

Also, may i make a devilish point: why are you concerned? Don't we the free people win by making the "free country" status more of an elite thing?

If we are sure that dictatorship brings misery and eventual failure, we should be happy about what's going on. They will be worse off and we, better.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#69

Post by justinzollars »

thepasswordis wrote: post #56

How do people seriously not see the parallels here? The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government, as well as most of the US, view the protestors in DC on Weds. HKers say they want democracy and fair elections. CCP and most Chinese think that's bullshit. MAGAs say they want democracy and fair elections. Most of the US Gov as well as mos…

> How do people seriously not see the parallels here? The way that the CCP, and most Chinese people, view the protestors in Hong Kong, is exactly the same way that the US Government

You need to read more about China. What you believe is simply not true. China is internally focused, The west is externally focused.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#70

Post by ceilingcorner »

Leary wrote: post #27

These Hong Kong supporters are a true inspiration for Americans. Their occupation of the legislature shows what a free people could do against oppression

I remember seeing them waving American flags during protests, presumably as a reference to liberty. I thought, “I wish we lived up to their perceptions of us.”
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