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Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#61

Post by sandworm101 »

dwighttk wrote: post #55
sandworm101 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The technology for speeding cameras Speed cameras are not the go-to tech. Nearly every car on the road has a GPS, either organic to the vehicle or inside the driver's phone. If we wanted to actually enforce speed limits it would be a trivial matter to have google forward the relevant information. This was done by a few rental car companies many moons ago (circa 2001). Speeding laws don't know how to account for su…

>it would be a trivial matter to have google forward the relevant information. oof... Glad Google doesn't have that info about me.

Got bluetooth on your phone? Some cities are using bluetooth IDs to measure traffic flow, a phone or car's bluetooth ID as it passed sensors and calculating the speed based on the time taken to cover the distance. This isn't used for speed enforcement, they don't match the IDs to individuals/cars, but it certainly could be.

https://www.econolite.com/products/software/bluetoad/

"Advanced Traffic Management Systems Bluetooth Detection. TrafficCast proven algorithms for filtering and processing data inputs to compute real-time travel times and speeds."

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#62

Post by sandworm101 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #53
sandworm101 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The technology for speeding cameras Speed cameras are not the go-to tech. Nearly every car on the road has a GPS, either organic to the vehicle or inside the driver's phone. If we wanted to actually enforce speed limits it would be a trivial matter to have google forward the relevant information. This was done by a few rental car companies many moons ago (circa 2001). Speeding laws don't know how to account for su…

> If we wanted to actually enforce speed limits it would be a trivial matter to have google forward the relevant information. So then you get a speeding fine for being a passenger? Wouldn't people just turn off their phones? > Of course, if we really care, it would be trivial to limit all cars to a particular mas speed while on public roads. This is useless because most "speeding" would be within the limit for the co…

>> if your vehicle detects the limit wrong

Welcome to one of the most basic and most difficult problems for AI-driven vehicles: What is the speed limit? Temporary limits, work zones, school/park zones based on sunlight, weather, children/workers present or not, emergency vehicles beside road or not ... it is complex but also something every driver manages every time they get behind the wheel. While it is possible to drive dangerously slowly, far more people are being killed by driving too quickly than too slowly. The default is generally, if unsure, err on the side of slower.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#63

Post by 88 »

gambiting wrote: post #46
88 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So charge your vehicle at your workplace, or at the shops, or at a dedicated charging station? In the medium term, if this becomes a real problem, properties will be devalued and owners can decide whether it’s worth contributing to the cost of installing the infrastructure. In the long term, most people won’t have private vehicles, so there won’t be any need to store and charge them on public roads.

>>In the long term, most people won’t have private vehicles You see, I don't believe this point at all, and I'm yet to see a convincing argument why it would be true. It would already be cheaper for me to take an Uber to work rather than own my car yet the convenience of having your own personal space that is mine far outweighs the savings. Also anyone who has children and knows the insane amount of stuff that babies…

I don’t imagine private vehicle ownership will disappear entirely. It will just become even more of a luxury than it already is.

When autonomous vehicles halve the cost of an Uber/Lyft journey, many more people will weigh up the costs/benefits of private vehicle ownership and decide it’s not for them.

Different services will compete based in part on the luxuriousness of the interiors and the frequency at which they are cleaned.

As private vehicle ownership becomes rarer, so to will parking, particularly on-street parking. People will look back and think it odd that we dedicated vast public spaces to the storage of private property.

Finally, as private vehicle owners become a minority group, they will become an easy target for even more punitive taxation and regulations which will see the group shrink even further still.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#64

Post by sandworm101 »

TheBill wrote: post #54
sandworm101 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> presumably every lighting pole will have a charging point since they are on the last century grid. The new light poles in my area all have solar panels. The solar+battery kit is cheaper than the cost to run the underground wires. The real jokes is that with the days so short, and the nights so cold, some poles are running out of power just before dawn. There have been experiments with running intersections (traffi…

Roundabouts. If it's that rural, why put in traffic lights?

Because is it rural. Farmers don't like having corners of their fields clipped to facilitate round intersections. And roundabouts have to be made large enough to facilitate multi-trailer trucks, not to mention farm equipment. Plowing them in the winter is also a real hassle/cost as opposed to strait-through square intersections.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#65

Post by sys_64738 »

dawnerd wrote: post #60

So if a car stops charging for whatever reason (fault, someone unplugs, finished charging) they get fined too since they're not actively charging? Seems like a system with more potential problems than it solves. In general I'm against any system that automatically fines people.

This is in Britain where they constantly foist such automation on the unsuspecting public.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#66

Post by mattlondon »

dawnerd wrote: post #60

So if a car stops charging for whatever reason (fault, someone unplugs, finished charging) they get fined too since they're not actively charging? Seems like a system with more potential problems than it solves. In general I'm against any system that automatically fines people.

Most charge points charge extra if you are sitting in the bay but have completed charging anyway as I understand it.

I also think that for safety reasons you cannot just unplug a charging EV car without stopping th charge first (i.e. a child cannot just walk up and knock the plug out etc).

If there is a fault in the charger, then I expect a "smart" parking spot to deal with that.

To be honest, the better approach in my mind is to put the electric charging bays further away from the entrance to the store or whatever. Quite often EV charging spaces are some of the "best" (i.e. closest) spaces available. Selfish pricks who want to park right by the door don't care if it is a disabled space, an EV space, or not even an official parking space at all - they'll just park where they want. Move the EV charging spaces further away from the store and you'll solve 99% of ICE'ings I reckon.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#67

Post by cameronh90 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #62
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we wanted to actually enforce speed limits it would be a trivial matter to have google forward the relevant information. So then you get a speeding fine for being a passenger? Wouldn't people just turn off their phones? > Of course, if we really care, it would be trivial to limit all cars to a particular mas speed while on public roads. This is useless because most "speeding" would be within the limit for the co…

>> if your vehicle detects the limit wrong Welcome to one of the most basic and most difficult problems for AI-driven vehicles: What is the speed limit? Temporary limits, work zones, school/park zones based on sunlight, weather, children/workers present or not, emergency vehicles beside road or not ... it is complex but also something every driver manages every time they get behind the wheel. While it is possible to…

In the UK at least, it's relatively simple. If it's a red circle with a number in it, that's the speed limit - anything else is advisory. In my experience, cars with built in sign readers do an exceptional job of working out the current limit (more reliable than me, certainly!).

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#68

Post by ianai »

mattlondon wrote: post #66
dawnerd wrote: post #60

So if a car stops charging for whatever reason (fault, someone unplugs, finished charging) they get fined too since they're not actively charging? Seems like a system with more potential problems than it solves. In general I'm against any system that automatically fines people.

Most charge points charge extra if you are sitting in the bay but have completed charging anyway as I understand it. I also think that for safety reasons you cannot just unplug a charging EV car without stopping th charge first (i.e. a child cannot just walk up and knock the plug out etc). If there is a fault in the charger, then I expect a "smart" parking spot to deal with that. To be honest, the better approach in…

Agree. Particularly if they’re going to be parked there for hours. This depends on the installer and person paying for the outlet though. I’ve seen both situations.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#69

Post by cameronh90 »

sys_64738 wrote: post #65
dawnerd wrote: post #60

So if a car stops charging for whatever reason (fault, someone unplugs, finished charging) they get fined too since they're not actively charging? Seems like a system with more potential problems than it solves. In general I'm against any system that automatically fines people.

This is in Britain where they constantly foist such automation on the unsuspecting public.

Why do you think we're against it?

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#70

Post by ClumsyPilot »

mattlondon wrote: post #66
dawnerd wrote: post #60

So if a car stops charging for whatever reason (fault, someone unplugs, finished charging) they get fined too since they're not actively charging? Seems like a system with more potential problems than it solves. In general I'm against any system that automatically fines people.

Most charge points charge extra if you are sitting in the bay but have completed charging anyway as I understand it. I also think that for safety reasons you cannot just unplug a charging EV car without stopping th charge first (i.e. a child cannot just walk up and knock the plug out etc). If there is a fault in the charger, then I expect a "smart" parking spot to deal with that. To be honest, the better approach in…

> Selfish pricks who want to park right by the door don't care if it is a disabled space, an EV space, or not even an official parking space at all

Seems like the right behaviour to discourage, just like littering, etc

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