Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe so but they are entirely different countries currently in the things that matter.
Different countries ... with a common heritage.
Greeks are Christians, Turks are Muslims. For starters.
Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
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Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
They lived in close proximity for a good part of a millennium. Do you think they haven't influenced each other?
> They lived in close proximity for a good part of a millennium. And? That doesn't imply common heritage. > Do you think they haven't influenced each other? That doesn't imply common heritage. Also if you talking about the ottoman empire. isn't the greek position that the ottoman empire was bad for them and hence why they sought independence? Or are you saying that greece should rejoin the ottoman empire and embrace…
> And? That doesn't imply common heritage.
Western Turkey was inhabited by large Greek populations and colonies for a very long time, which was one of the reasons behind the Persian War. During the Hellenistic era, the Seleucid Empire, a Hellenistic kingdom, ruled most of modern-day Turkey. And then from the Roman era to 1453, the area remained largely Greek-speaking, with Constantinople (aka Istanbul) the center of Greco-Roman civilization, with the citizens thereof actually called "Greeks" by many peoples.
Of course the Arabic and Turkic invasions introduced new peoples and changed things up quite a bit, but there's definitely common heritage between many people in Turkey and the Greeks, to the extent that many 'Turks' citizenship-wise are ethnic Greeks and other ethnic groups that spoke Greek and had a long participation in the Greek and Roman kingdoms.
Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#63Americans and the American media complain about how bad Facebook and tech censorship is, and it is bad, but overseas in countries such as turkey it is way worse. Americans truly take for granted the freedoms they have.
I think Americans are really preoccupied by that kind of stuff, because if we normalize the behavior then we might become a Turkey or Russia some day. Democracy and freedom of press and expression are intrinsically linked.
That being said, there's many who talk about "big tech" censorship but ignore some of the other problems of modern big media. So it's not always people who are pro-freedoms bringing this up.
Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#64I have no idea how this dictatorship is even considered for EU membership. Can someone explain this to me?
They applied in 1999. They were told what criteria to meet. They have not yet met them. This includes freedom and rule of law criteria. EU accession is not going to happen until Turkey is more like a normal European country.
While true, let's not pretend the membership criteria were ever objectively evaluated in Turkey's case. It was always entangled with domestic politics of member countries.
And one would wonder if member states like Poland and Hungary would meet such criteria right now.
Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#65Atheist turk here, this youtube channel is the largest social media channel of gulen religious sect/terror group, which tried to topple erdogan in 2016.
Despite hating Erdogan to my guts, i can assure you that this gulenist movement/terror group is a bigger threat to secularism and democracy in turkey and world alike.
Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They lived in close proximity for a good part of a millennium. And? That doesn't imply common heritage. > Do you think they haven't influenced each other? That doesn't imply common heritage. Also if you talking about the ottoman empire. isn't the greek position that the ottoman empire was bad for them and hence why they sought independence? Or are you saying that greece should rejoin the ottoman empire and embrace…
>That doesn't imply common heritage. spot the american.
Guilty as charged.
So you think australia and indonesia have a common heritage because they are neighbors, but the US and australia don't because we live an ocean away?
It's so funny, I was genuinely interested in this topic as my understanding of greece and turkey was one of conqueror and conquered, not "common heritage". I thought maybe there was history/ties/etc I was missing, but apparently it's just some politically driven people spewing nonsense.
Perhaps foreigners just don't know what "common heritage" means.
Spot the foreigner.
Edit: As I noted in my other comment, to say greeks and turks share the same heritage is like saying americans and native americans share the same heritage. American heritage stems from britain, but no sane person would claim that native american heritage comes from britain. I don't think any sane person would associate the ottoman empire with greeks. They would associate it with the turks because it was a turkish empire. I bet most greeks see their heritage as ancient greece.
Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#67If you inspect the article and its author, you can easily see that its author Yasin Kesen is a member of FETO ( Fetullah Gulen's Terrorist Organization ) and he is run off from Turkey to Germany just before than 15 July coup attempt ( in this attempt, FETO is killed more than 300 innocent civil person in streets, bridges and homes. They misilled bombs from airplanes, they attacked also TBMM (Grand National Assembly of Turkey). People are mashed by tanks pallets in streets. He is a terrorist organization member and writing disparagement posts. They tried to get the governance, but failed. Their commanders give command to their pilots and tank drivers: "Kill everybody that moves. No pity. Just kill". And their friend in a foreign country writes something to calumniate the legally voted governence.
Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#68Really looking forward to see how the EU respond here with Turkey vs, say, China or Google or FB. It's just interesting to me how values change depending on whom you're talking to.
It's telling that only an outgoing US administration decided to -weakly- sanction Turkey over the Russian missile fiasco. The European Union looks more and more like a banking cartel than a federation of nation states. Germany and Spain, that vehemently opposed sanctions in the last eurogroup, are doing good business selling weapons to Turkey. Weapons, that are then used by Turkey to openly threaten Greece and Cyprus…
The Congress cancelling a deal to sell a 100 F-35s along with some of their parts being produced in Turkey hardly sounds like a weak sanction.
Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#69I have no idea how this dictatorship is even considered for EU membership. Can someone explain this to me?
They applied in 1999. They were told what criteria to meet. They have not yet met them. This includes freedom and rule of law criteria. EU accession is not going to happen until Turkey is more like a normal European country.
It's hard to believe the process is still going on. I remember on the first day of a class in 2004, the instructor had everyone introduce ourselves. One of the students started with, "Hi, I'm from Turkey. You have probably heard about my country from our lame attempts to join the EU..."
Re: Erdoğan’s censorship now targeting media outlets in Europe
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there any chance Erdogan will be democratically ousted?
Turk here. i doubt it. Average education level of turkish people is around 8th grade. He controls all the mainstream media, and preachers in the mosques. What remains as a free ground to spread the criticic voice is internet, which has been partially censored up to now and is going to be heavily suppressed as of 2021. And social media will no longer be a safe place for criticizing Erdogan, unless utilizing secure VPN…
It's hilarious that you're voted down probably due to talking bad about Trump, but then you're actually from a place where a man like Trump was in charge for 2 decades, so maybe people here should listen to you about his ilk and what they do to a country and stop supporting him.