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What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

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Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#61

Post by maccard »

brnt wrote: post #47
soared wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, Casual biking cannot exist when you have to tolerate being 12 inches from a 2 ton death machine going 45 MPH.

I agree, I have lived abroad in such circumstances for a number of years. Local cyclists were hard to convince that they were not very good at advocating the bicycle as a mode of daily transport. Getting cars under control is certainly the first thing that must happen, but cyclists running red lights and being worried about their 'gear' are a nuisance everywhere. They are no more tolerated in the Netherlands than out…

As a cyclist and driver in a city, cyclists running red lights is one of those things that people talk about like it's a massive problem. It's not cyclists blowing red lights at busy junctions, if they did that they would be killed here instantly. It's cyclists trying to go when there isn't any traffic going, or they're competing with pedestrians. Yeah you get the occasional asshat, but you get them in cars too, and they're way more dangerous there.

The focus needs to be on getting cars under control, period.

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#62

Post by saagarjha »

exabrial wrote: post #60

I think one think urban planners [and HNers] get wrong about bike usage is bike lanes and mixing bikes with cars. That works in overcrowded coastal cities, but for the vast majority of the country, a different approach is likely optimal. Bentonville, AR I think has cracked the puzzle. They built mountain bike trails... literally everywhere. You're hanging out with your buddies north of town and want to grab a pizza f…

Right, but then you have to ride a mountain bike around. Which isn't really the best for longer distances of casual transportation…

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#63

Post by abeppu »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #49
sideshowb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the things you list are accurate... Also, more 20mph speed limits on urban routes useful to cyclists. Cheap and effective for creating a more cycling friendly environment.

To paraphrase current civil engineering doctrine: A sign doesn't do anything to turn a four lane boulevard into a road people drive 20 on. The enforcement needed to back up the sign is not the kind of thing people put up with in the western world (a few pockets of Europe notwithstanding). You need to actually design the road to make 20mph a reasonable speed.

My understanding is that narrower lane widths do cause drivers to slow down. The signage stating a 20 mph limit may be ignored, but if all the other lane lines get repainted narrower when a bike lane is put in, then cars will drive less aggressively.

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#64

Post by martyvis »

exabrial wrote: post #60

I think one think urban planners [and HNers] get wrong about bike usage is bike lanes and mixing bikes with cars. That works in overcrowded coastal cities, but for the vast majority of the country, a different approach is likely optimal. Bentonville, AR I think has cracked the puzzle. They built mountain bike trails... literally everywhere. You're hanging out with your buddies north of town and want to grab a pizza f…

If a large population is going to "shred" a track to get around its going to end up a muddy rut in no time, or only works for able 15-55 year olds.

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#65

Post by saagarjha »

dashundchen wrote: post #23
jablan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, although I am hobbyist bike mechanic, I never heard of Coasting before. Frankly, doesn't sound very attractive - a complicated (proprietary) automatic gear system relying on functioning (proprietary) front hub dynamo... All that to address a practically non-existing problem: no one really has a problem learning how to use bicycle gears.

> All that to address a practically non-existing problem: no one really has a problem learning how to use bicycle gears. It's definitely easy to learn once explained, and every enthusiast knows - but as a cyclist living near a popular bike route, I see a lot of casual riders who appear to have no idea how to use their gears. The most common thing I see are riders with the cranked up in a high gear on flat land, and y…

> The most common thing I see are riders with the cranked up in a high gear on flat land

Wait, is this not what you are supposed to do? How do you go fast then?

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#66

Post by fnord77 »

exabrial wrote: post #60

I think one think urban planners [and HNers] get wrong about bike usage is bike lanes and mixing bikes with cars. That works in overcrowded coastal cities, but for the vast majority of the country, a different approach is likely optimal. Bentonville, AR I think has cracked the puzzle. They built mountain bike trails... literally everywhere. You're hanging out with your buddies north of town and want to grab a pizza f…

this sounds amazing. I love to bicycle and want to bike everywhere in my city, but it's too nerve wracking, noisy and unpleasant sharing the road with cars, even when the bike lane is separated.

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#67

Post by exabrial »

martyvis wrote: post #64
exabrial wrote: post #60

I think one think urban planners [and HNers] get wrong about bike usage is bike lanes and mixing bikes with cars. That works in overcrowded coastal cities, but for the vast majority of the country, a different approach is likely optimal. Bentonville, AR I think has cracked the puzzle. They built mountain bike trails... literally everywhere. You're hanging out with your buddies north of town and want to grab a pizza f…

If a large population is going to "shred" a track to get around its going to end up a muddy rut in no time, or only works for able 15-55 year olds.

That was the initial concern. It turns out, a diverse population turns out to turn up. Let me see if I can find their study.

EDIT: ARGH. I can't find the study I was reading during the summer. But from what I remember, roughly 25% of people were 35-45, 25% were 46-55, and probably the most amazing is the 56-65 group was around 20%!

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#68

Post by exabrial »

saagarjha wrote: post #62
exabrial wrote: post #60

I think one think urban planners [and HNers] get wrong about bike usage is bike lanes and mixing bikes with cars. That works in overcrowded coastal cities, but for the vast majority of the country, a different approach is likely optimal. Bentonville, AR I think has cracked the puzzle. They built mountain bike trails... literally everywhere. You're hanging out with your buddies north of town and want to grab a pizza f…

Right, but then you have to ride a mountain bike around. Which isn't really the best for longer distances of casual transportation…

Bentonville has no mountains :)

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#70

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

sideshowb wrote: post #33
redelbee wrote: post #24

Increasing ridership can come from tech but I think it’s much more likely to come from better and more bike-centric infrastructure and norms. Separated bike paths, bike storage, showers at offices/work, etc would all make it much more likely for someone to decide to bike. We could tell people: Decide to bike and save money. Decide to bike and save health. Decide to bike and save the environment. We can tell people th…

All the things you list are accurate... Also, more 20mph speed limits on urban routes useful to cyclists. Cheap and effective for creating a more cycling friendly environment.

Then the police start ticketing cyclists exceeding the limit.
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