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The Philosophy of Anger

bostonreview.net

61–70 of 76 posts

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#61

I do feel like anger and the vengeance it drives (in particular irrational vengeance that goes beyond restitution) has some evolutionary advantages. In many ways it is like the doomsday device in dr strangelove... the fact that it is not rational, and will be carried out even if it is not in the continuing best interest of the person enacting revenge, acts as a stronger deterrent than a proportional response. It chan…

I too see anger (and all other emotions we experience) as an evolutionary adaptation. It is more a neurological fact than a metaphysical matter woven into the fabric of reality, in the manner that philosophers tend to discuss it.

In this case, anger is a loss response. Sadness is also a loss response but it looks back in time and works to reduce one's activity level, while anger is forward looking and tends to drive one towards more action. (Unrelated, but fear is also a loss response, but a response to a potential loss).

Anger also generally (but not always) requires that the one experiencing anger recognizes the perceived cause of anger as an agent with free will. We don't feel angry, for example, when we get caught in the rain (unless it is at ourselves for not bringing an umbrella). However, we have seen animals (such as chimpanzees and dogs) on occasion expressing what look like anger at inanimate objects that have hurt them.

Perhaps there are other intelligent species out there with a different evolutionary path that has a larger number of primary emotions. And perhaps there are others who only possess one emotion in place of both anger and sadness. It is a subject worth examining from an evolutionary and neurological angle, rather than philosophical.

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if you could elaborate what you mean by abandoning anger. I would imagine if someone at the office started claiming your work at your own you would probably experience something rather analogous to anger. I know it's a bit nitpicky but I would imagine that what you've done is become excellent at managing anger rather than banishing it entirely. (Which is an impressive accomplishment that you should feel v…

> I would imagine if someone at the office started claiming your work at your own you would probably experience something rather analogous to anger. I'd be more incredulous than angry. The vast majority of my work is well tracked in VCS and easily shown to be my work - such claims of... what, insecurity? Greed? Fear? Are typically self-defeating, easily disproven, transparent, and rather pitiable. They merely invite…

> I'd be more incredulous than angry

I like your comments. But on one point ...

Decades ago, reading Seneca’s “On Anger” changed my life overnight.

I went from feelings of anger every 3 or 4 weeks to maybe once a year.

And those occasions always concern those dearest to me, of whom I hold such great expectations.

That’s because anger to me is one of disappointment of expectation.

I would never feel ‘incredulous’ if someone stole or claimed credit for my work. I’d more feel “inevitability”. When you work with hundreds of people over time it will happen.

And anger just doesn’t come into it at all. I do t avoid it, I haven’t eradicated it, I don’t control it. I’ve found a way of living where it very rarely arises.

So aligning lived experience with an expectation model means anger isn’t something I avoid, it just doesn’t arise. When it does, it’s because my mind refuses to incorporate into any expectation model that my child will die, or my spouse will cheat. Perhaps in others minds, they can’t incorporate the expectation colleagues will steal work.

It’s interesting that I am perfectly happy with my partner being someone who does get angry. It washes through her like a cleanser. There are many paths to happiness.

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#63
Anger is a product of evolution, as we signal an intent of physical violance against an object of it, giving some time to recover the harm that has been done, before the confrontation goes out of control. That's all it is.

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#64
This article implies that forgiveness and mercy are immoral. People have the capability to create evil. Seeing as there is some good around, we must be able to create good as well. As moral creatures who can create good and evil, are we not obligated to create as much good as we can, and extinguish evil where we can? Or should we shrug our shoulders and say, it’s not my fault I am bad, there was evil before me, evil was done to me, and I will embrace it myself.

There are a lot of false dichotomies in the article, especially the idea that it isn’t possible to disincentivize or even punish evil without embodying evil yourself, therefore confusing evil and good. There is too much to write, it seems foolish to even have to explain. Thousands of years of (mostly) successful criminal justice assumed that dispassionate, fair judgment is at least possible.

Most importantly, building on this twisted logic to say that to be wronged makes you immoral (by either unjustly ignoring evil, or through grudge and retaliation becoming evil), is not only hurtful to victims, but justifies a world that forever echoes and amplifies pain and evil. I steal from my enemy because he has done me wrong. I steal from you because my enemy has made me evil. All evil for everyone is justified.

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#65

I do feel like anger and the vengeance it drives (in particular irrational vengeance that goes beyond restitution) has some evolutionary advantages. In many ways it is like the doomsday device in dr strangelove... the fact that it is not rational, and will be carried out even if it is not in the continuing best interest of the person enacting revenge, acts as a stronger deterrent than a proportional response. It chan…

Seeking revenge, with premeditation and planning is not unique to humans. A lot of animals also hold grudges against others and humans. So there must be some sort of evolutionary advantage that might not be too obvious.

Game theoretically, seeking lose-lose as revenge is not rational. But credibly precomitting "burning your ships" to revenge is rational.

A gene for anger is a pre commitment.

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#66

Every time I think about anger, I end up concluding it must originate from fear. Frequently that fear is related to one’s status in various social groups and/or perceived lack of control. What fundamental fear is of in specific circumstances IMO determines whether the anger downstream is, to quote the article, “correct”. If someone stole from you a little, the underlying fear could be that it is a trend, your subsist…

Something like fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering?

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#67
post #60

Every time I think about anger, I end up concluding it must originate from fear. Frequently that fear is related to one’s status in various social groups and/or perceived lack of control. What fundamental fear is of in specific circumstances IMO determines whether the anger downstream is, to quote the article, “correct”. If someone stole from you a little, the underlying fear could be that it is a trend, your subsist…

This is a good insight. I reached a similar one a few years ago, but with regards to hate: i.e., that hate can only arise where there is fear, and fear is there where there is a threat (real or perceived). The quintessential example in my mind: would the Nazis have emerged and acted the way they did, had they seen the German Jews as just a quirky religious minority? Would any immigrant today, be hated if people of th…

Your example regarding immigrants & hate agrees with my observations.

I believe those host nations that (as far as I could tell) harbour no hatred towards immigrants could be separated into two categories: countries where locals tend to feel broadly confident, and countries where locals tend to feel innately superior to non-locals.

In the former countries, immigrants indeed seem to be perceived simply as a bunch of differently-looking people with quirky customs.

In the latter countries, feeling of superiority seems to preclude anger or hate, but contempt seems to be possible in some circumstances (I suspect contempt might be fear in presence of superiority).

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#68

This article implies that forgiveness and mercy are immoral. People have the capability to create evil. Seeing as there is some good around, we must be able to create good as well. As moral creatures who can create good and evil, are we not obligated to create as much good as we can, and extinguish evil where we can? Or should we shrug our shoulders and say, it’s not my fault I am bad, there was evil before me, evil…

> This article implies that forgiveness and mercy are immoral. People have the capability to create evil. Seeing as there is some good around, we must be able to create good as well. As moral creatures who can create good and evil, are we not obligated to create as much good as we can, and extinguish evil where we can? Or should we shrug our shoulders and say, it’s not my fault I am bad, there was evil before me, evil was done to me, and I will embrace it myself.

> There are a lot of false dichotomies in the article, especially the idea that it isn’t possible to disincentivize or even punish evil without embodying evil yourself, therefore confusing evil and good. There is too much to write, it seems foolish to even have to explain. Thousands of years of (mostly) successful criminal justice assumed that dispassionate, fair judgment is at least possible.

I don't think he was advocating for evil as the only way to combat evil, in all circumstances but only in some.

And as much as the development of a impartial judicial can regulate certain cases of amoral behavior, there are still many more situations where a compromise of our morals is nesseacary to correct some situation at hand.

Cases that come to mind range from insulting someone for insulting you back, lest they continue in this behaviour after thinking you are an easy target, to allied intervention to Hitler's aggression

> Most importantly, building on this twisted logic to say that to be wronged makes you immoral (by either unjustly ignoring evil, or through grudge and retaliation becoming evil), is not only hurtful to victims, but justifies a world that forever echoes and amplifies pain and evil. I steal from my enemy because he has done me wrong. I steal from you because my enemy has made me evil. All evil for everyone is justified.

Again, my interpretation of the authors views is not that the totality of every victim of injustice is themselves an example of moral failure, only in some. I think a strong case for this is in the two examples I gave above, where your retaliatory behaviour will act as deterrence towards the trangressor, barring them from further transgressions. When the aggressor perceives that you are constrained by a set of morals or behaviors that prevent you from retaliating to their aggression, then there is nothing stopping them from infringing on you further. Therefore in this case, I believe you have the responsibility to act in retaliation, and the charge of immorality could be reasonably levied against those who fail to do so.

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#69
I sometimes think about the way U.S. culture elevates the concept of vengeance in movies: They killed or kidnapped his wife and family, and now here’s two hours of kicking them to death. No character development or exploration of loss; just a flashback of a generically pretty family on the beach, and then kicking.

Quite a few of these movies end with the protagonist, after having kicked his way through countless henchmen, deciding that the bad guy “isn’t worth it”, which is to say that after it’s clear that the protagonist has won the fight and could kill the villain if he wanted, masters his emotions and walks away. Sometimes followed up by the villain destroying himself via suicide by police, falling off a cliff, or some other means of dying that isn’t the protagonist’s fault.

These movies strike me as the crystallization of one of our predominant societal ills: the idea that it’s morally good to feel anger, and morally bankrupt to not feel anger. The righteous path is to be angry; where to direct the anger is of secondary concern, and we need not even understand what we’re mad about, and the thing we’re mad about need not even be real.

I’m finding a deeper respect as I age for people who are able to respond to the world with zen-like empathy.

Re: The Philosophy of Anger

#70

Every time I think about anger, I end up concluding it must originate from fear. Frequently that fear is related to one’s status in various social groups and/or perceived lack of control. What fundamental fear is of in specific circumstances IMO determines whether the anger downstream is, to quote the article, “correct”. If someone stole from you a little, the underlying fear could be that it is a trend, your subsist…

The book When Anger Hurts changed my life. https://www.amazon.com/When-Anger-Hurts-Quieting-Within/dp/1...

Thesis is that anger is the result of a cascade.

Expectations -> Disappointment -> Resentment -> Blame -> Anger

(From memory, will update if needed.)

So the trick is update one's expectations, short circuit the cascade before it can even start.

Separately, I learned that we can only replace habits with new habits, vs unlearn habits. Completely out of ideas, I faked being happy. One day I woke up, said to myself "Phenomenal!", and truly meant it. I was shocked that it worked. My whole transformation took about three years. YMMV. (Maybe having a life coach would work faster.)

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