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Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

theintercept.com

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Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#61

This shows the limitations of ML: facebook has incredible amounts of preference & behaviour data on its users; and can't even meet incredibly generic categories such as "high-earner, college educated, etc.". The reason we think we're in an "AI" boom is 90% these ad. companies hyping their own abilities (an identical strategy to that of the initial boom in the 50s). What we call "AI" today is just an associative house…

Instead of limitations of ML, could be simply a matter of not having enough inventory with the desired parameters to sell to everyone who wants it. Which doesn't make it any less sleazy if true, of course.

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#62
post #29

This shows the limitations of ML: facebook has incredible amounts of preference & behaviour data on its users; and can't even meet incredibly generic categories such as "high-earner, college educated, etc.". The reason we think we're in an "AI" boom is 90% these ad. companies hyping their own abilities (an identical strategy to that of the initial boom in the 50s). What we call "AI" today is just an associative house…

I can't speak for other people, but the reason that I think we are in an AI boom has nothing to do with online advertising. It is that computers can now recognize images, translate language, have conversations, generate articles, make realistic looking pictures, play the game of go, solve protein folding, generate realistic text to speech, recognize voices. All these things were not possible 5 years ago. Every year t…

Out of your list, translating language and solving protein folding are the only 2 that are likely to have any kind of major impact on the world in the somewhat near future, in my opinion. Image recognition may be a distant third, as it could prove very useful as a tool in many domains that have lots of visual data to sift through.

Voice recognition is neat, and it is extremely useful in certain niches, but it is generally far inferior to mouse+keyboard or touch or dedicated buttons in all cases where those are practical. It is almost unusable in public spaces. Text-to-speech is mostly in the same boat - extremely useful in some niches, not a game-changer in any way I expect.

Text generation is only "realistic" in shape, but for now remains a novelty. Picture generation is the same. They are at best at the level where it already costs pennies to obtain similar texts through human labor. Having conversations in a meaningful way is even farther.

Playing Go better than humans is a fun gimmick - an awesome achievement in some sense, but with 0 practical applications outside of Go.

Overall, there has been good progress in AI/ML, but I don't expect we'll see any major changes too soon from this. Especially since the idea of actually seeing commercially available self-driving cars has been pushed back a decade or three compared to the initial optimism.

I'd also add that most of the progress in ML/AI in the last few years has essentially been of a technological/engineering kind. There haven't really been that many deep scientific insights, we don't necessarily understand any of these problem spaces better. We've just been able to match certain neural net architectures with certain problem spaces, and massively advanced in realistically-available computing power to actually train these nets on enough data.

But we haven't gotten any new insights into stuff like language from GPT-3, for example. We haven't even gotten any new insights into Go from AlphaGo!

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#63
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could explain the mechanics of how this happens? Surely FB employees aren't managing those bot accounts themselves. Do they generally determine accounts that engage with ads to be "human/real", thereby incentivizing bad actors who spin up fake FB accounts to click/"like" ads?

They could also do it at arm's length. A lot of MTurk-style sites have loads of jobs along the lines of, "click this ad, fill out this form, get $0.02".

But who is paying those MTurk click farms to click ads on Facebook?

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#64
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for other people, but the reason that I think we are in an AI boom has nothing to do with online advertising. It is that computers can now recognize images, translate language, have conversations, generate articles, make realistic looking pictures, play the game of go, solve protein folding, generate realistic text to speech, recognize voices. All these things were not possible 5 years ago. Every year t…

Out of your list, translating language and solving protein folding are the only 2 that are likely to have any kind of major impact on the world in the somewhat near future, in my opinion. Image recognition may be a distant third, as it could prove very useful as a tool in many domains that have lots of visual data to sift through. Voice recognition is neat, and it is extremely useful in certain niches, but it is gene…

Computer vision is used for many driver assistance technologies, which are a big deal for ease of life.

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#65
More background:

https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/california/...

"At the outset, the court notes the unusual nature of these requests: defendant is asking the court to seal an opposing party's pleadings. In ordinary course, such a request is improper. The FAC is plaintiff's pleading and, within the bounds of Rule 11, it is free to allege what it wants independent of any stricture defendant wishes to impose. The court understands, however, that plaintiff has taken discovery and that the FAC is more detailed than an ordinary verified pleading. Given that difference, the court will consider these requests."

The declaration filed by one of Faceook's legal staff to support this absurd request gets absolutely skewered.

Regulatory officials never seem to get much truth from Facebook, but I have always thought litigation, namely its "side effects", have the potential to expose truths about Facebook.

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#66
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for other people, but the reason that I think we are in an AI boom has nothing to do with online advertising. It is that computers can now recognize images, translate language, have conversations, generate articles, make realistic looking pictures, play the game of go, solve protein folding, generate realistic text to speech, recognize voices. All these things were not possible 5 years ago. Every year t…

Out of your list, translating language and solving protein folding are the only 2 that are likely to have any kind of major impact on the world in the somewhat near future, in my opinion. Image recognition may be a distant third, as it could prove very useful as a tool in many domains that have lots of visual data to sift through. Voice recognition is neat, and it is extremely useful in certain niches, but it is gene…

I'm sure that most people didn't expect major changes from pcs, the internet and smartphones before mass adoption. As this is a community tied to a startup incubator, I would encourage everyone here to keep an open mind.

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#67

Anecdotally, FB shows me the same ads on repeat: Few are relevant, and the same ones repeat past a threshold I'd assume would indicate I'm not interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbKdKcGJ4tM

As someone who runs facebook ads for ecomm, repeated targeting are a core part of making facebook ads profitable. You'll almost never make money by running a simple, one-step ad with a link to your website. What we do is to target a group of people with a simple ad, then people who engage with or leave impressions on that ad will be run into a second ad, and so on and so forth until you finally funnel them into a con…

Yeah, I've frequently experienced seeing an ad for X service for the 10th time and finally finding myself curious to find out what it's actually about.

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#68
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for other people, but the reason that I think we are in an AI boom has nothing to do with online advertising. It is that computers can now recognize images, translate language, have conversations, generate articles, make realistic looking pictures, play the game of go, solve protein folding, generate realistic text to speech, recognize voices. All these things were not possible 5 years ago. Every year t…

>recognize voices. All these things were not possible 5 years ago. FTR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_NaturallySpeaking Dragon Systems released NaturallySpeaking 1.0 as their first continuous dictation product in 1997. As of 2012 LG Smart TVs include voice recognition feature powered by the same speech engine as Dragon NaturallySpeaking.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I played with dragon in 97 and it was awful - it didn’t work at all, completely unusable. Today voice transcription is a solved problem and while their engine might be the same in name - I’d be surprised if the approach isn’t totally different than what they were doing in 97, either that or the LG tv voice transcription probably doesn’t work as well as everyone else’s. The deep learning revolution and the applic…

Of course it was awful. It was 1997. But you can't claim that something "wasn't possible 5 years" ago, if 7 years ago said feature was included in inexpensive consumer product (LG TV). I'm not acting cynical, but it's tiresome for me to see people who claim that 20-30 years ago we all were living in a caves and catching bugs with wooden sticks, and now boom, ML! Regarding "something truly different", well, my persona…

It matters if it actually works and if it works broadly or just for limited use cases. As I said in the original comment, I think that you will see many applications in the near future. The last 5 years have been focused on research (comparable to 1990-1995), only now are we getting ready for commercial applications.

Re: Facebook managers trash their own ad targeting in unsealed remarks

#70
post #18

Facebook's ad inventory is sold by auction. Inaccurate targeting isn't a big deal as long as all advertisers are treated the same. Furthermore, granular targeting is no longer the way to scale on Facebook. Therefore, inaccurate targeting will have little to no effect on most campaigns' efficacies (at least the ones designed by those who are knowledgable of the ecosystem). Any FB marketer worth their salt knows this.…

> Furthermore, granular targeting is no longer the way to scale on Facebook.

Can you elaborate on this? I’m not sure I understand what the alternative is.

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