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UX Issues with Notion

telegra.ph

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Re: UX Issues with Notion

#61

Post by alfonsodev »

blunte wrote: post #15

When I read people like or love Notion, I wish I could watch them use it. Obviously they are doing things very differently than I do... Typing latency while writing or editing a page is really high (bad). Every keypress you do, must be going through a long chain of "what can we interpret the user to be wanting ?" questions. Guess what!? The user is probably just trying to fucking type! Special features and options sh…

> I could go ON and ON with examples.

Please, If you could you should, it helps us, the ones building new tools, to avoid making the same mistakes.

I find your comment, and the post like this, very useful, often I look for inspiration in most popular tools, Notion recently, because I want to build something that feels familiar for many many users, yet new, and I'd like incorporate only the good patterns and trying to not make same mistakes.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#62

Post by rickyc091 »

jitl wrote: post #22

(Disclaimer: I work on Notion) To me, the most interesting feedback here is that seamless-editable-by-default is a negative for this user, and as a work-around, this organization locks/unlocks every page. This is surprising to me because I find content locks and editing friction very annoying. For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frus…

The reason I prefer Notion over wikis is because you don't have to click edit to modify a page.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#63

Post by wim »

lvice wrote: post #54
wim wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We built Papyrs for this ( https://papyrs.com ). Would be curious to hear your thoughts on this!

I had a go with a trial account. I like the UI/UX and the site is really fast. Impressive project, and it looks a billion times better than most Sharepoint-based intranets. Good luck!

Thanks!

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#64

Post by ethbr0 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #51
switz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frustrating when someone happens to have an idling cursor in a random position. You understand what the OP is complaining about is not the same as the scenario you presented, right? I'm not even sure why you brought it up; is it to imply that _any_ 'friction' is bad? Is having to enter 'insert mo…

This is the typical "clealiness/minimalism/frictionless above everything else" paradigm in design circles that needs to die a horrible death. It's like we don't think anymore and instead blindly follow like a bunch of mind washed design-zombies that have been instructed by the god of minimalism to make everything look/feel clean.

The problem is that minimalism / cleanliness requires targeting specific use cases. You boost the usability of some, at the cost of complicating (or eliminating) others.

But what do I know? I still think context menus + hotkeys are a pretty great compromise.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#65

Post by savrajsingh »

wim wrote: post #41
savrajsingh wrote: post #4

What's the best easy-to-get-started internal company wiki tool? Notion seemed useful at a startup I consulted for, but I too experienced some of the quirks the author mentions.

We built Papyrs for this ( https://papyrs.com ). Would be curious to hear your thoughts on this!

thanks will check out!

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#66

Post by deckard1 »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #59
deckard1 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No alternative... to a note taking app? Am I missing something or is everyone crazy here? I use Joplin (with Syncthing) which fits the bill. But I could literally use vim and a folder on my drive. I'm baffled by the productivity "maximizers" on HN. Is this never-ending search for the right tool just an elaborate excuse for procrastination?

IMO notion is not a short-form note taking app, and I think it's not ever going to the right app for that use case (though I know lots use it that way anyway). I personally use Keep for most "notes" and notion for "documents". Some of the documents are notes but they're long-form research / project documents.

again, you can do both of these in vim/Joplin/Obsidian/Google Docs or probably a hundred other tools.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#67

Post by gravity13 »

jitl wrote: post #22

(Disclaimer: I work on Notion) To me, the most interesting feedback here is that seamless-editable-by-default is a negative for this user, and as a work-around, this organization locks/unlocks every page. This is surprising to me because I find content locks and editing friction very annoying. For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frus…

>Likewise, wouldn’t you be baffled if you needed to click a “Start Editing” button in Word or Google Docs?

Likewise, wouldn't you be baffled if you opened up a wikipedia article and found you were automatically editing it, and now you need to worry about making an accident every time you visit the site because you had no intentions of editing content, instead just consuming it.

But that's just because people are using the product in different modalities.

Are you using Notion as more of a live editor, where the documents are often short lived and transactional in nature? Or are you using it as a sort of permanent knowledge base and history?

The reality of the situation is that each modality commands different designs, and Notion generally tries to solve for all of them with single-minded design principles.

I think there's a strange fallacy in our industry of UX design which dictates that your product should resolve to simple design decisions or become convoluted configurable behemoths driven by the unending deluge of ad hoc decisions from customer asks - like there's no middle ground. Some designer is hopping up and down in a fit going, "but the user doesn't understand MY design principles!"

I feel like "tech" has ultimately failed in this regard.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#68

Post by wolco2 »

switz wrote: post #37
jitl wrote: post #22

(Disclaimer: I work on Notion) To me, the most interesting feedback here is that seamless-editable-by-default is a negative for this user, and as a work-around, this organization locks/unlocks every page. This is surprising to me because I find content locks and editing friction very annoying. For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frus…

> For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frustrating when someone happens to have an idling cursor in a random position. You understand what the OP is complaining about is not the same as the scenario you presented, right? I'm not even sure why you brought it up; is it to imply that _any_ 'friction' is bad? Is having to enter 'insert mo…

In vi the insert mode concept is so foreign it creates friction for the beginner and is one of the bigger hurdles.

Re: UX Issues with Notion

#70

Post by smoldesu »

jitl wrote: post #22

(Disclaimer: I work on Notion) To me, the most interesting feedback here is that seamless-editable-by-default is a negative for this user, and as a work-around, this organization locks/unlocks every page. This is surprising to me because I find content locks and editing friction very annoying. For example I used Quip for many years, which locks any block currently being edited by someone else, which can be quite frus…

I enjoyed the time I had with notion, but ultimately it didn't feel "worth it" to keep around. The free tier is too restrictive, and while I preferred the premium experience, the price was ultimately much too high to stomach.
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