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How neutering dogs became the norm

moosenuggets.substack.com

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Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#61

Post by havelhovel »

The background information is interesting, but the lack of any base rates and the use of apples-to-oranges comparisons makes the author’s argument seem like one made in bad faith. The author omits that 20% of shelter dogs are still euthanized each year, instead using the overall population as the denominator. And the 5,700 dogs being purchased in auction by rescue groups over ten years is pretty insignificant considering that 1.6 million dogs are adopted each year (and the author even highlights the possibility that the dogs may in fact be abused but sees this as hypocrisy on the part of the rescues). The rest is anecdotes about puppy mills. What would have been convincing is an actual example of demand not being met by the supply provided by pounds, or even better, statistics on a possible shift in demographics from mixed breeds to pure breeds in pounds.

Also describing strays as living successfully on their own is absurd. Sure some haven’t starved to death or been crippled by random acts of violence by humans. Any one of them would still prefer a home where their physical and emotional needs are met.

Source: https://www.aspca.org/animal-homelessness/shelter-intake-and...

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#62

Post by sn_master »

michaelmrose wrote: post #54
bpodgursky wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weaker version of this argument which is less likely to be downvoted is, "A huge fraction of the pit bulls which are currently in shelters are not compatible with most homes who want to adopt dogs" Pit bulls, whether or not they are inherently aggressive (and let's be honest, you get more aggressive pit bulls than Golden Retrievers), can do a HUGE amount of damage when they are. Adopting a dog which can't be trus…

Do you have any data to back up inherent breed based aggression by pit bulls?

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019...

Says Pit Bulls are responsible for 69% of the fatalities (not just of all attacks).

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#63

Post by leetcrew »

ambivalents wrote: post #47
leetcrew wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one of the reasons people neuter dogs (males especially) is to lessen the chance of aggressive behavior. I don't know whether this is actually true, but it's one of the main reasons people give. the other (and more persuasive, imo) reason is simply to prevent the dog from procreating. there are already far more dogs and cats in the world than people are willing to home. unless you're able to keep your dog away from a…

By worse, do you mean his recovery was worse? Longer, harder? I'm planning to make the decision by the time he turns 1, in a few months. While my dog isn't aggressive by any stretch, he is extremely high energy. I do wonder if neutering him will calm him down a little.

it took several more weeks than we expected for him to fully recover and he was obviously in discomfort during that time. I'm not a vet, so I don't know if it was just a fluke or if this is common in large dogs who get neutered later. all I'm saying is don't procrastinate. consult your vet and/or the internet, then either do it or don't.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#64

Post by bumby »

spa3thyb wrote: post #40
bumby wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article actually talks about a shortage of adoptable dogs due to mass de-sexing, leading to unintended consequences like importing puppies

Talks about, but provides little evidence for. Banning puppy mills and letting dogs breed freely is hardly a solution.

I don’t believe “letting dogs breed freely” was being proposed. Please avoid straw man arguments

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#65

Post by ttaubert »

ambivalents wrote: post #9

I'm faced with this decision now, and am leaning towards not neutering my pup. At the very least, I'll be waiting until he's one year old, when most of his sexual development has wound down. The vets I've been to have both encouraged I do it, at 6 months and at 9 months. And they have the financial incentive to do so. The whole practice feels archaic and somewhat cruel. I understand why people do it, but I wonder how…

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Most of the vets in Europe wouldn't suggest neutering, only if it's a medical necessity or the dog's being overly aggressive. And if you really need to, wait until he's grown up.

Our dog is a rescue and was neutered at a very young age before he came to us. His development was rather delayed and he's definitely behind. I really can't imagine doing this just because it makes your life "easier". I would never do it without a good reason.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#66

Post by michaelmrose »

bluedino wrote: post #13

Neutering or spaying should be mandatory. So many people “breed” dogs thinking they are going to sell them, who have no business doing so. So many puppies and adult dogs fill our shelters, it’s very sad.

It's a complex choice with surprising implications see discussions in thread regarding different optimal timing for different breeds.

Would you have cops seize unfixed animals, vets report same, perhaps a tip line to report your neighbors? Extra cops to handle enforcement, extra beuracrats to manage and track compliance?

Since fixing all dogs would make dogs extinct I presume you wanted licenses for breeders. I'm sure the same people won't just pay a license fee and do the same things maybe we can require an an education program hire more paper pushers to write additional regulations, hire inspectors.

I'm sure this whole thing won't just become a massive tax on dog ownership ensuring dogs start at 2000 with a $200 annual tax stamp.

Everyone that ever wants to fix the world via legislation says that there ought to be a law ____. You have to actually enforce the laws and deal with implications.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#67

Post by leetcrew »

sn_master wrote: post #58
michaelmrose wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would get less down votes if you make substantial arguments as people will be more apt to engage in discussion instead of down voting and moving on.

I shared a YouTube link with hundreds of videos of pitbull attacks caught on camera. Watching one or two of those videos should constitute a substantial argument if someone has an open mind. From experience, I can spend a solid hour writing arguments and I'll get downvoted anyway by all the SJWs here who refuse to accept anything differing from they believe in. Even if one person decides to watch any of those videos…

there are almost 80 million dogs in america. linking a video with hundreds of pitbull attacks is not much better than just saying your neighbor has one and it's mean.

the margin for error is probably higher with a lab or golden retriever, but it's irresponsible to own any large dog without committing to proper training and socialization. any large dog can maim or kill a human if provoked.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#68

Post by michaelmrose »

fiftyfifty wrote: post #28
bluedino wrote: post #13

Neutering or spaying should be mandatory. So many people “breed” dogs thinking they are going to sell them, who have no business doing so. So many puppies and adult dogs fill our shelters, it’s very sad.

There are a number of health issues that have been associated with spaying/neutering dogs including obesity, diabetes, cancer, cognitive impairment (Alzheimers type diseases) and joint problems like hip dysplasia, torn acls etc: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096726/ http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsofSpayNe... Male dogs especially seem to suffer significant long term health effects…

If we made ridiculous laws like parent poster suggested instead of just doing that you would have to get your state to modify the law and hope it didn't require modifying federal law and wait a decade.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#69

Post by sn_master »

leetcrew wrote: post #67
sn_master wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I shared a YouTube link with hundreds of videos of pitbull attacks caught on camera. Watching one or two of those videos should constitute a substantial argument if someone has an open mind. From experience, I can spend a solid hour writing arguments and I'll get downvoted anyway by all the SJWs here who refuse to accept anything differing from they believe in. Even if one person decides to watch any of those videos…

there are almost 80 million dogs in america. linking a video with hundreds of pitbull attacks is not much better than just saying your neighbor has one and it's mean. the margin for error is probably higher with a lab or golden retriever, but it's irresponsible to own any large dog without committing to proper training and socialization. any large dog can maim or kill a human if provoked.

There is a reason BSLs exist. Scientists in those countries have decided pitbulls in particular are statistically more dangerous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation

Please be cautious before getting a pit bull yourself or for a loved one. I don't see this discussion moving forward regardless of whatever evidence I present.

God bless, have a great holiday.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#70

Post by michaelmrose »

sn_master wrote: post #31
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #26

The author is claiming that dogs are rare in shelters now and that institutions are actively buying them from the same puppy mills that are being detracted. I can’t see that to be true- look at villa lobos rescue with over 130 pit bulls, and they have a nationwide show trying to adopt out their dogs. Hell my local aspca has 445 dogs looking for a new home within 25 miles of my zip code.

pit bulls are dangerous dogs, unlike most other breeds. source: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pitbull+attack Edit: https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019... 69% of fatalities due to dog bites were caused by the same breed.

This is a terrible source. Please see.

https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/

Personally I prefer the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Dog Breeders Association to a single biased source that is basically the qanon of breed specific legislation.

The only reason that I have slightly more respect for dogsbite is at least dogs actually have teeth whereas the pizza place in fact did not have a basement.

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