In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#61

Post by EGreg » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:08 AM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #42

tomcam wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you even buy those pre-86 full autos? Asking for a friend.

Usually at auction. Even poor quality, worn out registered automatics will run in the high thousands, or low tens of thousands because of constrained supply. This creates interesting dynamics where people take cheap (relatively, still ~$5,000 on the low end) legal automatics like MAC-10s and converting them to 5.56x45mm while retaining the original lower receiver. Example: https://youtu.be/YjrnB2cXSqM

Wait wat?

These are legal somehow in USA? Can you please trace how and prove it with links?

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#62

Post by dfsegoat » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

tomcam wrote: post #39

DennisP wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So to clarify that...the federal Assault Weapons Ban applied to semi-auto rifles with certain ergonomic features, including pistol grips, flash hiders, and folding stocks. (Semi-auto is one bullet per trigger pull, full-auto means you can hold the trigger down and spray bullets.) The North Hollywood robbers had illegally modified their weapons to enable full-auto fire. Since well before 1997, modifying guns like this…

Where do you even buy those pre-86 full autos? Asking for a friend.

Impactguns.com is one well known dealer of ATF regulated machineguns and AOWs [0, 1]. Based in UT if memory serves. Be prepared to drop 10k USD+ And obviously the bg check / atf stamps etc. and any fees your local receiving federally licensed firearms dealer may add.

I have zero affiliation with this site, they just have a large, dynamic inventory so it makes for fun browsing for me.

0- https://www.impactguns.com/machine-guns/

1- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_II_weapons#Any_other_w...

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#63

Post by asveikau » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

Melting_Harps wrote: post #6

Yeah, many of us that grew up in SoCal recall the heist that led to the so called 'assault weapon' ban, it was completely legal to have a long barrel rifle with 30 round magazines in CA prior to that--they could be open-carried if not loaded back then if I recall correctly, too. This was around the time of the LA riots in the 90s, too... which in my mind all happened at the same time as I recall being a kid sat in fr…

> Yeah, many of us that grew up in SoCal recall the heist that led to the so called 'assault weapon' ban

I always heard it was events in California (and Diane Feinstein being a key player) that created the ban, but I never heard a specific event in SoCal being the catalyst. Wikipedia cites a school shooting in Stockton in 1989 and an office shooting in San Francisco in 1993. Outside of the state, Wikipedia also cites a mass shooting in Killeen, TX.

> LA in the 80s was also Ground Zero for Gang warfare in the US

Might be true, but also: the 1980s was near the peak of violent crime certainly nation-wide, maybe worldwide. Lots written and studied on this topic. Theories about lead poisoning and all that. Probably multiple factors. But a lot of the discussion then was on urban crime. People thought that cities were dangerous. I'm glad that the last 20 years or so has largely seen a reversal of that.

Lately there has been a resurgence, especially in the political right, of the cities are dangerous mantra. It seems pretty odd to me.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#64

Post by EGreg » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #50

Melting_Harps wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just a point of clarification for those not familiar with the heist, the weapons used were -not- legal in CA or the US. It was also during the time of the Federal Assault Weapons ban. They were not owned nor able to be owned legally during that time. Only semi-correct, they had full-auto AK47s and extended mags, all of which at the time could be purchased and legally owned with a special stamp by the ATF [0]. As a…

The weapons they used theoretically could have been legal had they had the provenance to make them legal. Converting your own semi-auto to full auto is in now way legal then nor now. Full auto guns are basically a rich man's toy and have been since well before new ones were outlawed in 1986. The practicality mostly isn't there for criminal use and they're real expensive to feed.

What happened in 1986 and are you saying it’s legal to own an automatic weapon if it was manufactured that long ago? Do you have to register it? And people can modify them and upgrade them?

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#65

Post by npunt » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:12 AM UTC

Whenever the high crime rates in the 70s-90s is brought up I like to remind folks this was likely an aberration with a specific environmental cause (lead), rather than representative of human nature.

This [1] is an eye-opening roundup of ~25 major studies that support the lead-crime hypothesis, including comparisons across countries & cultures. The evidence is pretty overwhelming and certainly changed my perspective on human nature, which for me had previously been influenced by both growing up around the violence in CA in the 80s-90s and the media culture that depicted and sensationalized it.

If you walk away from this thinking 'oh, humans are a lot less violent than I thought they were', you might find other beliefs built on top of that assumption also follow. These types of perspective shifts in life are rare, and very powerful.

[1] https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-le...

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#66

Post by missedthecue » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:12 AM UTC

coupdejarnac wrote: post #37

blackrock wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the 80s were more fun. We had Miami Vice, MacGyver, The A-Team, Knight Rider, and Battlestar Galactica back then. And homes were still affordable places to live in.

Homes were affordable, but interest rates were like 13%.

Homes were also much smaller. The median home size has almost doubled since 40 years ago.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#67

Post by nabla9 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:15 AM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #20

paulpauper wrote: post #9

When pundits --on either side of the pollical spectrum--talk about how bad America is or how things are on the verge of collapse societally, show them stats such as this. By almost every metric, as bad as things may seem, they were objectively worse decades ago. Yeah, it feels like people are angrier than ever, especially online, but Twitter is not real life. A combination of increased tech surveillance, longer priso…

It's not just bank robbery. Every crime category is now much lower than it was in 1990, in every jurisdiction of the USA. Even if you take a city that people think is ridiculously dangerous, like Camden, New Jersey, the homicide rate was triple 25 years ago.

Not just in the US. Also in Europe and most of the developed world. Violence peaked in 80's - 90s and then started to decrease dramatically.

Lead–crime connection is the strongest explanation. Past lead exposure functions as a predictor for criminal activity. Crime starts to drop in every country after the use of leaded gasoline is forbidden.

New evidence that lead exposure increases crime https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evide...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#68

Post by dharmab » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:16 AM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #61

manfredo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually at auction. Even poor quality, worn out registered automatics will run in the high thousands, or low tens of thousands because of constrained supply. This creates interesting dynamics where people take cheap (relatively, still ~$5,000 on the low end) legal automatics like MAC-10s and converting them to 5.56x45mm while retaining the original lower receiver. Example: https://youtu.be/YjrnB2cXSqM

Wait wat? These are legal somehow in USA? Can you please trace how and prove it with links?

It's simple.

~~The Assault Weapons Ban only applied to new guns.~~ ATF policy change, not AWB. Existing guns were grandfathered in.

Guns have many interchangeable parts. The part of the gun that the government considers to be the "legal definition" is a part called the lower receiver. You can change almost anything about a gun as long as you keep the lower receiver and comply with any other laws.

So if you buy an old MAC-10 lower receiver that was manufactured before the new ATF policy, and add an adapter [1] that allows it to be combined with the non-lower parts from an AR-15, you can create a completely legal Frankenrifle with mostly new parts!

This isn't even the craziest thing you can do with gun loopholes in the USA. "Pistol braces" [2], originally made for war veterans with amputations to shoot small rifles, have pretty much obsoleted restrictions on short-barreled rifles. "Ghost guns" [3], i.e. lower receivers that have no serial number and do not appear in any database, are easily made by anyone with access to CNC tools (including a few hours rental for a few hundred bucks). 3D printed pistols are becoming a thing [4], although they are not very durable.

1: https://aandsconversions.com/2018/11/25/the-next-big-thing-f...

2: https://www.sb-tactical.com/product-category/brace/

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_gun

4: https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/jzik44/magdump_monday...

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#69

Post by manfredo » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:17 AM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #61

manfredo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually at auction. Even poor quality, worn out registered automatics will run in the high thousands, or low tens of thousands because of constrained supply. This creates interesting dynamics where people take cheap (relatively, still ~$5,000 on the low end) legal automatics like MAC-10s and converting them to 5.56x45mm while retaining the original lower receiver. Example: https://youtu.be/YjrnB2cXSqM

Wait wat? These are legal somehow in USA? Can you please trace how and prove it with links?

Automatic guns became regulated in the 1930s, and you need approval by the ATF to own them and they need to be registered. They're in a similar category as bombs, rocket launchers, and whatnot. They are strictly regulated and the government basically knows where each one is at all times.

In 1986, they stopped accepting new registrations for automatic guns. So there's a fixed supply of legal automatic firearms that normal people can own.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#70

Post by manfredo » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 6:20 AM UTC

dharmab wrote: post #68

EGreg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wat? These are legal somehow in USA? Can you please trace how and prove it with links?

It's simple. ~~The Assault Weapons Ban only applied to new guns.~~ ATF policy change, not AWB. Existing guns were grandfathered in. Guns have many interchangeable parts. The part of the gun that the government considers to be the "legal definition" is a part called the lower receiver. You can change almost anything about a gun as long as you keep the lower receiver and comply with any other laws. So if you buy an old…

The automatic weapons ban (specifically the 1986 Machine Gun Act) is distinct from the Assault Weapons Ban. The Assault Weapons Ban was in the 1990s and banned the sale of semi-automatic guns with certain shapes of grip, bayonet lugs, and other features. It did not ban anything based on magazine capacity, as is often stated. It expired in the 2000s since it had a sunset provision that made it last 10 years if not renewed.