Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you seen the research of Ribosomes being quine-like? (the structural nucleic acids and genes for the protein parts are related).
While that is an interesting fact about the evolution of ribosomes, no kind of ribosome could have ever appeared, except after the process of RNA replication was already a perfected process. Otherwise the first ribosome would have disappeared soon after it was first assembled, without leaving any descendants. The first ribosome was probably made only of RNA, as there were no other ribosomes to assemble the ribosomal…
Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
61–70 of 143 posts
Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I don't think so [...] and therefore I reject it outright That's not a problem. There can be insane theological and ethical consequences for everyone else.
Not really. They'll just say a chemistry experiment isnt life.
Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you've got a minority opinion calling crystals "alive," although it does jibe with one definition of life that I heard: "any self-sustaining system that reduces internal entropy."
> "any self-sustaining system that reduces internal entropy." Planet Earth would/should definitely count as alive, especially if it "reproduces" via us terraforming other planets to become like Earth.
Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#64Considering that the first proto-computers were not programmable, I can't help but be skeptical that the first life needed genetic material. Certainly there were lipid membranes. Maybe there were spontaneous proteins, maybe there was purely-catalytic RNA. I guess it's also a matter of line drawing. I'm OK with calling crystals life, for example. One should feel bad about breaking up big ones the same as one should fe…
RNA and DNA are prone to replicating themselves (with many errors and not efficiently) in a wide variety of situations. It's way more likely that evolution selected those molecules for efficiency than that some complex life appeared without some transferable data storage.
Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're equivocating environments and hosts. Hosts do the replication for the viruses. Environments do NOT do the replication for the fish.
In fact, for quite a few fish they do, ditto amphibians and insects too. Mammals are the exception here, there the environment for replication is an integral part of the body of the parent. But in all those other cases, including, technically, marsupials it isn't.
An egg is a complex life that can reproduce the whole organism (and actually with energy stored INSIDE, that’s why they are great nutritios value for others)
Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are they? Some primates have better working memory than we do, for example. Of course we would never confuse another species for a human, but I also think we would not confuse a domestic house cat for anything else despite them coming in many shapes, sizes and colors, so I assume you mean something more profound than just that we look visually different.
>Of course we would never confuse another species for a human Yes, this is what I mean. There is seemingly no organism/species that I would confuse whether to classify it as human or not human but I'm pretty sure there are species/organism albeit is rare that I would be in hard time categorizing it as cat or not cat. Another example is human male and human female, albeit is rare but there is some human population tha…
Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would you define genetic material? I think some kind of movement and a metabolism can already be called alive. It's not so much about the material but rather the interaction between the materials that gives rise to behavior and then natural selection.
"Genetic material" is memory. Therefore it must have the following properties: 1. It must be able to store any random sequence of symbols belonging to a certain set (e.g. any possible sequence of bases in the case of nucleic acids). 2. There must be a way to make identical copies of it (e.g. nucleic acid replication). (the previous 2 properties are true both for its own genetic material and for a foreign virus that d…
Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe in hard barrier between life and non life but interestingly the barrier between human and non human animal are seemingly very discrete.
Considering the radical diversity in the spectrum of human cognitive capabilities, I'm not so sure it's a discrete transition from non-human to human. What is a human?
It might even be defined by social criteria, quite literally. Yet, Homo economicos is not the only social animal and not the only one with a social conscious either.
Actually, I think you want to talk about humanity as a whole, as an organism to draw a clear distinction, because the level of controlled organization is unparalleled.
In that sense I can agree with your sentiment, because I am not sure how much man's success is really controled and not just the result of sheer luck, despite horrible accidents and individual failure.
On another note, this isn't your websearch box. I went on to write an essay because I tried to take the question serious. This became invariably self centered and thus potentially dehumanizing to everyone else, trying to reclaim the terminus because failing to find an interesting definition which would rest on intricate topics in current research and traditional philosophy, I felt rather insecure, dumb and worried if a strong definition of humanhood would eventually exclude myself, whereas too weak a definition would have barely any utility to anyone. It is quite poetic, here's the climax:
"The collective memory greatly expands that capacify, so it can remain out of the question if an individual ape has a low mental capacity, if you won't ever find enough monkeys assembled around a typewriter as you can find humans in the market place trying to dictate the value of life."
To double down on that, let's say the appropriate question goes who is.... Whereas what rather goes along as relative pronoun to denote possession. What has a human, well, a typical human has many humans around them, above and below. Whereas a single human is practically dead, if not conserved in living memory.
Next up: Human rights for Artifical General intelligence and bionic hind brains for poor hackernews commentators, where to draw the line.
Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#69Re: Tibor Gánti's ideas about the origins of life
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you've got a minority opinion calling crystals "alive," although it does jibe with one definition of life that I heard: "any self-sustaining system that reduces internal entropy."
> "any self-sustaining system that reduces internal entropy." Planet Earth would/should definitely count as alive, especially if it "reproduces" via us terraforming other planets to become like Earth.