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Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

npr.org

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Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#61

Post by ishjoh »

beamatronic wrote: post #29
jrochkind1 wrote: post #15

> "[A]lgorithms are made by people and the results ... were reviewed multiple times by people," You got that right. The way they talk about "an algorithm did it" makes it seem as as if they think that somehow explains it, like there was only one algorithm possible handed down from god or something. We'll be seeing more and more of this of course. "We can't be blamed, it was an algorithm! We can't be blamed for trusti…

Select * From employees sort by salary desc

Small nit-pic. select * from employees sort by total_compensation desc;

Otherwise C Level folks who take a $1 salary but receive tons of options would be put at the bottom.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#62

Post by doctoring »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #14
1-6 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An algorithm is clearly a virtual scapegoat. They’ll need to interview those who were involved in coding it. Dig deeper to find out why.

The quoted explanation sounds pretty complete to me. They used "assigned location" to determine who was working with COVID patients, but residents don't have an "assigned location", so they were incorrectly passed over even though they do in practice work with COVID patients. Maybe that doesn't completely exonerate the administrators from blame, because someone should have sanity checked the plan, but it also seems l…

But... why were they rushing? It's not like the vaccine appeared out of thin air on Friday. Its arrival was known for weeks/months. The staff and where they work is known. The error itself is understandable but the conditions leading to it and its propagation are not.

The further, unforgivable sin is that the error was brought to their attention internally on Tuesday, the administrators didn't bother to fix it, and then when it became more widely known to the hospital staff Thursday afternoon they still did not act to fix it. And then Friday, suddenly they're in the news, they decide they're going to fix it?

Disclosure: Am a physician at Stanford.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#63

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

jrumbut wrote: post #58
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quoted explanation sounds pretty complete to me. They used "assigned location" to determine who was working with COVID patients, but residents don't have an "assigned location", so they were incorrectly passed over even though they do in practice work with COVID patients. Maybe that doesn't completely exonerate the administrators from blame, because someone should have sanity checked the plan, but it also seems l…

It's an understandable error only if residents and their safety isn't at the front of your mind. Perhaps if a resident had been closely involved they would have been able to tell the developers that they don't have anything in the location field. It's not like Stanford didn't know a limited supply vaccine was coming several months ago, there was time to figure this stuff out. And it would have been, if it had been a…

Not everything can be high priority. Stanford administrators several months ago would have been working on securing adequate supplies and staffing for the expected fall surge; that's a much more important problem, both to the system as a whole and to the residents, than who gets vaccinated today vs. next week.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#64

Post by cs702 »

In all likelihood, this was an innocent mistake (i.e., not done with malice)... but it's hard not be cynical about it, especially when we consider the context.

Medical residents:

1) are at high risk, overworked, stressed out, and underpaid;

2) are regularly being called "heroes" in slick posters and PR campaigns; and

3) have just been left out of the initial vaccine allocation.

The combination of 1), 2), and 3) seems almost "engineered" to induce psychological and emotional breakdown in the very people who least deserve it. Horrible.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#65

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

fairity wrote: post #28
jrochkind1 wrote: post #15

> "[A]lgorithms are made by people and the results ... were reviewed multiple times by people," You got that right. The way they talk about "an algorithm did it" makes it seem as as if they think that somehow explains it, like there was only one algorithm possible handed down from god or something. We'll be seeing more and more of this of course. "We can't be blamed, it was an algorithm! We can't be blamed for trusti…

I think most people are misunderstanding the likely root cause. > An algorithm was used to assign its first allotment of the vaccine. The algorithm prioritized health care workers at highest risk for COVID infections, along with factors like age and the location or unit where they work in the hospital. Residents did not have an assigned location, and along with their typically young age, they were dropped low on the…

The article addresses this:

> While leadership is pointing to an error in an algorithm meant to ensure equity and justice, our understanding is this error was identified on Tuesday and a decision was made not to revise the vaccine allocation scheme before its release today

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#66

Post by tsycho »

jgeada wrote: post #10

Lets see: first they give themselves what they want. Only after, and only if there is any outcry, then they apologize without any consequences. Yeah, I think management learnt something /s. We're always going to keep getting more of this behavior unless and until we start holding management fully accountable for this type of insider dealing. And accountable means being immediately fired, no golden handcuffs, and a fu…

What if management is the judge, jury and executive? Who will bell the cat?

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#67

Post by mschuster91 »

davidf560 wrote: post #24
amb23 wrote: post #12

The labor of medical residents is something hospital systems exploit during normal times, but that exploitation has severely deepened during the pandemic. At the hospital my partner works at, respiratory therapists and nurses got a $10k bonus for working during COVID; the residents got nothing despite working insane hours in ICU, routinely working more than the legally mandated 90 hours per week. Just because doctors…

> I can name 3 other local hospital systems in my city that have vaccinated administrative & C-suite/VP level staff I don't understand why society is putting up with this. Right now if you're not in a daily COVID-facing role (i.e. an actual front line medical worker) or in a nursing home you should not be getting the shot. This makes my blood boil. There should have been laws passed regarding ordering of the distribu…

I agree that healthcare workers, firefighters and police should be the first ones to get the shots - and directly after them, politicians should, and that mandatory. Get the shot or lose your seat.

There are large parts of the population who say they won't get vaccinated because they're afraid that politicians exploit them as "guinea pigs" (especially the PoC community has a really bad history, e.g. Tuskegee syphilis study). Time to turn the usual situation around.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#68

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

jtbayly wrote: post #11

Why should residents who are young and very low risk be a high priority? The answer is simple. They shouldn’t. This is absurd to complain about. Lots of other people should be higher priority. Edit: I’m not surprised at the downvotes, but I’m just laughing. It’s like everybody’s brain has turned to mush! How on earth do you expect them to prioritize these vaccines if not based on age and other risk factors?

One of the main risk factors is exposure.

Guess who is walking the halls filled with COVID-infected patients, and who is WFH, only having to leave the house once every two weeks for a grocery run?

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#69

Post by jgeada »

tsycho wrote: post #66
jgeada wrote: post #10

Lets see: first they give themselves what they want. Only after, and only if there is any outcry, then they apologize without any consequences. Yeah, I think management learnt something /s. We're always going to keep getting more of this behavior unless and until we start holding management fully accountable for this type of insider dealing. And accountable means being immediately fired, no golden handcuffs, and a fu…

What if management is the judge, jury and executive? Who will bell the cat?

Well, if all the people that actually produce the value (that is the workers) walk out on strike until the cat is belled, things would move.

Of course, that requires that strikes be legal. In the USA, that is frequently not the case.

Re: Stanford apologizes after vaccine allocation leaves out medical residents

#70

Post by nextweek2 »

Medical professionals should not be in the early rounds of vaccines.

If the vaccines have a delayed negative effect you cripple health care.

Vaccines are great once they've had years of testing, but risk management would tell you to play it safe with critical staff. If the vaccine disabled 20% of medical professionals in January how many people would die as a consequence?

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