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EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

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Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#61

Post by melenaboija »

I don't have much idea about regulations but I have the feeling that western countries reactions in this terms have been slow.

I am not sure if this has been intentional to not slow the fast pace of the industry, they could just nod do it or they have not realized the impact of it.

I think in some way the the almost immediate reaction to most of the regulatory problems that appeared during the COVID pandemic demonstrate that is possible to solve some of the bureaucratic barriers if needed. Not comparing the situations per se at but yes the practical resolutions.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#62

Post by xwdv »

ben_w wrote: post #11
hpoe wrote: post #4

>" so would only come into force after the Brexit transition period has ended." Well so this isn't going to do anything for 40 years. > "Furthermore, the law specifies that local officials can send cross-border orders to make tech firms remove content or provide access to information, wherever their EU headquarter is based." I feel that this is very open to abuse especially with this example provided >"A commission s…

I don’t see why that Airbnb example is problematic — enforcement of local laws using information not stored locally. The other option is requiring data to be stored within whichever jurisdiction the data concerns, which could be done but seems contrary to the point of the single market (not a huge difficulty if they can afford local translators and content moderators, but still against the point of the single market)…

Raiding the illegal AirBNB and throwing the guests, often foreign, in prison and forcing them to pay huge fines to collect revenue.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#63

Post by rodgerd »

iguy wrote: post #40
avianlyric wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What number would you pick? I would say that any company that has 45 million customers is doing pretty good. 10% definitely makes many companies the largest in their sector, not every company is a Google or Amazon that’s completely consumed it’s market.

Also, 10% overall probably means a much higher share in some countries. Doesn't seem like a crazy threshold.

In the EU context, it would mean 100% of several countries, or 80%+ of one of the big EU nations (France, Germany, Italy, etc).

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#64

Post by avianlyric »

hpoe wrote: post #4

>" so would only come into force after the Brexit transition period has ended." Well so this isn't going to do anything for 40 years. > "Furthermore, the law specifies that local officials can send cross-border orders to make tech firms remove content or provide access to information, wherever their EU headquarter is based." I feel that this is very open to abuse especially with this example provided >"A commission s…

>> " so would only come into force after the Brexit transition period has ended."

> Well so this isn't going to do anything for 40 years.

I wish, but it's pretty clear the brexit transition period is ending 17 days whether the UK is ready or (more likely) not.

> I feel that this is very open to abuse especially with this example provided

Not sure how else you could manage this. If you don't put this stipulation you'll end up with the privacy equivalent of the double-Irish. Where a smaller EU country either writes the weakest version of the law they can get away with, or just turns a blind eye to abuse, and uses that to attract companies like Facebook to move their "HQ" there.

> I get the feeling although this law started with the right idea it is being used as an excuse for law enforcement to expand their reach, without actually helping people.

Not sure how this is an example of a regulator expanding their reach. If a regulator has the authority to regulate the housing in a city, why should they not be able to force companies that help people actively flout their regulation to turn over details on those flouters.

In the EU there's a cross-border agreement to help police identify car owners for speeding tickets etc. Is that also an over reach?

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#65

Post by throwaway894345 »

tarsiec wrote: post #23
FleaFlicker99 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> must prioritise complaints raised by "trusted flaggers" That's the real concern here. Speech must be handled very carefully, but now we're elevating some specific people to be 'more equal' than others? Who are these people, and why do they get more say? I can see that opening a can of worms. I don't live in the EU, but just like that well intentioned but shortsighted cookie law, the rest of us will have to deal wit…

Who are these people, and why do they get more say? I assumed their level of "trustworthy" comes from them consistently flagging content or issues of the platform and those reports being valid, as some sort of reputation system, and not some users being selected for more arbitrary reasons. I could be wrong though.

Vanilla reputation systems don't optimize for "validity"; rather, they optimize for consensus--whatever opinions are popular get hyper-reinforced in tight feedback loops. If you believe that our society is irredeemably racist, then a vanilla reputation system will optimize for racism. Basically, the reputation system can't dictate what is valid--that has to be determined outside of the reputation system. In other words, set a clear, objective standard for "valid" content and use a reputation system that holds moderators accountable to that external definition of "validity".

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#66

Post by bloodorange »

fadsfsafadf123 wrote: post #53

Sometimes I think GDPR was secretly pushed by Big Tech to make it harder for smaller business's to compete. It was basically useless. I wouldn't even be surprised if Google or Facebook helped write the legislation. Whatever noise EU is making now I have very little hope for. If the US government was so fearful that a fun video app made in China had the power of compromising National Security, stealing and spying on c…

"It was basically useless"

Could you elaborate and perhaps point towards what makes you think this way?

I ask because I have worked in a rather large corporation which had to implement massive changes to ensure they were being more respectful and careful towards user data. In my experience, the GDPR made them take it seriously which was otherwise ignored as it allowed them to profit off being negligent about these things.

Also, it's a bit like food handling and storage related regulations for restaurants. While it might seem like a pain for the guy running the restaurant, it helps reduce the risk the consumers could otherwise face.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#67

Post by nickff »

Fargren wrote: post #58
nickff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually an EU citizen, who has never lived there, and never even visited. I did not create the EU; did the EU create me?

If your parent are EU citizens, and the EU 'is it's citizens' (which is controversial but defensible) then yes, the EU did create you.

None of my family have ever resided in the EU either.

I think I understand the argument you're trying to make, but it relies on some rather tortured logic.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#68

Post by avianlyric »

xwdv wrote: post #62
ben_w wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why that Airbnb example is problematic — enforcement of local laws using information not stored locally. The other option is requiring data to be stored within whichever jurisdiction the data concerns, which could be done but seems contrary to the point of the single market (not a huge difficulty if they can afford local translators and content moderators, but still against the point of the single market)…

Raiding the illegal AirBNB and throwing the guests, often foreign, in prison and forcing them to pay huge fines to collect revenue.

What exactly would the guests be guilty of? This is EU we're talking about, we do actually have due process here.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#69

Post by jariel »

avianlyric wrote: post #39
nickff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); saying that the EU 'owns' their market is quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents.

> quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents. Have you heard of laws and governments before? This is exactly what they do, it’s also why democracy is such a big thing. If you’re gonna give that much power to an organisation, you want to make sure you can change it if start going off the rails. > The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); It might not have “creat…

"do, it’s also why democracy is such a big thing"

Voters of France and Netherlands strongly rejected the treaty upon which the EU derives is legitimacy. Referendums were cancelled elsewhere.

Ursula von der Leyen did not receive any votes, she wasn't even part of the process, she was an unknown German figure until after the election, when she was plucked from obscurity by actors acting in total opacity, behind closed doors: "Here is your New Leader".

I respect much of the commercial facility of the EU, but it's severely lacking in democracy.

And while I think a lot of the intentions of the current system are reasonable, a lot of it is not ... and I'm super concerned that totally unelected and unaccountable elite are just going to be smashing their big hands into the economy, with the simplistic populist notions of 'American Economic Imperialism' and a kind of anti-American jealousy just under the surface.

It'd be nice to see much more thoughtfulness here, but more importantly, mechanisms to improve European competitiveness.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#70

Post by harperlee »

nickff wrote: post #46
bla3 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is its citizens. So in a sense the EU did create its citizens.

I'm actually an EU citizen, who has never lived there, and never even visited. I did not create the EU; did the EU create me?

You are part of it, so you created part of it through your birth. Once all EU citizens die, the EU dies. We can also of course end it earlier.
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