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The Economics of Christmas Trees

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Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#61

Post by Aeolun »

sheeeep86 wrote: post #21
Slartie wrote: post #11

This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany. We got our tree for this year a week ago directly from a grower in the local area where we always buy our trees. It is of average size (the 6'-7' size is also what we mostly consider a good size over here) and it only cost us 30€, so our prices here seem to be significantly lower than i…

We got our 1,7m large Christmas tree in Germany for 13 Euros, I simply don't understand how it could have been worth to let it grow for many years at this price.

To be fair, agricultural land is relatively cheap. And you basically just leave the tree there for 10 years, so maybe it works out?

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#62

Post by Aeolun »

silexia wrote: post #16

I run a Christmas tree farm at a small scale. I wonder if real Christmas trees are actually worse for the environment than fake trees as many real Christmas trees are burned rather than sent to a landfill?

Real trees have 10 years to filter out their own carbon, so I find that hard to imagine.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#63

Post by ghaff »

js2 wrote: post #51
Slartie wrote: post #11

This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany. We got our tree for this year a week ago directly from a grower in the local area where we always buy our trees. It is of average size (the 6'-7' size is also what we mostly consider a good size over here) and it only cost us 30€, so our prices here seem to be significantly lower than i…

I’ve lived in NC piedmont area (a couple hours drive from tree farms) since 2004 and basically paid $65-75 for a 6-7 ft tree every year. Every year but one we’ve gotten our tree from whatever corner lot was convenient. (One year we were late and only Home Depot had any trees left.) There is either a shortage of trees this year or people shopped early. We got our tree earlier today and it was the last of two. They gav…

I think more people shopped and more of them shopped early. My neighbor in Massachusetts has a Christmas tree farm and they opened a week early (weekend before Thanksgiving) to try to spread out the crowds. Ha!

It was very busy that first weekend. I actually notmally get a wreath from them but they were mobbed. I was going to go over early the day after Thanksgiving (the day they normally open and the next day they were open) before I went paddling later and it was just a complete mob scene. I'm not actually sure how they dealt with the crush given that they, like me, have a long one lane driveway and cars were backed out to the road. They sold out that day apparently.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#64

Post by dlgeek »

raviolo wrote: post #40
nostromo wrote: post #13

I'll take this opportunity to share this cool video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08K_aEajzNA

Could be the same pilots who do cherry drying: https://youtu.be/UBe9GEhc7pE

So, I was fascinated by that video and kept asking myself "wait, that's a thing?". I found this great article by the pilot of the video that talks about the practice and economics of cherry drying: https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/tag/cherry-drying/

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#65

Post by legolas2412 »

missedthecue wrote: post #56
fortran77 wrote: post #47

My city, Sunnyvale, CA, has "free" tree disposal. I once complained to the City about why I had to subsidize someone else's religion. The answer made sense: the trees would be dumped if the city didn't collect them.

These aren't communion chalices. Christmas trees have no religious significance.

The name literally includes "christ"

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#66

Post by Pfhreak »

enriquto wrote: post #31
cm2012 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the opposite for global warming - burial is excellent for carbon capture (delays carbon release for a long time), burning is awful (releases carbon into the atmosphere instantly).

Interesting, it makes sense. Do you know what are the involved timescales here? How long before the buried wood is decomposed and has released most of its carbon back? Is it 50 years or 5000? Maybe it depends a lot on the type of soil? EDIT: as the sibling comment observes, burning the tree cannot be "awful", as all the carbon from that tree came from the atmosphere. Growing and burning a tree is the epitome of carbo…

It really depends on the local conditions. A log on the surface, in an area with things that will eat it (e.g. fungi, bacteria, termites, and other decomposers) will fairly readily give up its carbon.

If it gets covered, and spends time in a cold, anaerobic environment, there will be nothing to return it to the atmosphere. Decomposition can eventually stall out entirely, allowing it (given enough time and compression) to form coal or oil.

I'm very interested in wood gas pyrolosis, a process that pulls burnable fuel from wood and produces almost pure carbon as a byproduct. The gas could be used to generate electricity or heat, and the carbon could be buried in old mines. I suspect the economics just aren't there for it yet, (or the process doesn't scale to the numbers we'd need for large scale de-carbonization).

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#67

Post by dctoedt »

silexia wrote: post #16

I run a Christmas tree farm at a small scale. I wonder if real Christmas trees are actually worse for the environment than fake trees as many real Christmas trees are burned rather than sent to a landfill?

In Houston, Christmas trees are collected, taken down to Galveston ~50 miles away, and piled on beaches to serve as anchors for sand dunes, which is good for the shoreline. As noted elsewhere in this subthread, the carbon trapped in the trees takes years to be released into the atmosphere through the decay of the wood and needles.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#68

Post by jdlshore »

mNovak wrote: post #55
Slartie wrote: post #11

This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany. We got our tree for this year a week ago directly from a grower in the local area where we always buy our trees. It is of average size (the 6'-7' size is also what we mostly consider a good size over here) and it only cost us 30€, so our prices here seem to be significantly lower than i…

The geography doesn't scale up for the US though. I imagine people in Oregon, near the growers, also pay less per tree.

I live in Portland Oregon and paid $40 for a 6’ noble fir yesterday at a small retail lot. Normally, you can bargain down the price (and judging by his tentative price quote, he was expecting me to) but I was happy with that price and didn’t bother.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#69

Post by tpmx »

sheeeep86 wrote: post #21
Slartie wrote: post #11

This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany. We got our tree for this year a week ago directly from a grower in the local area where we always buy our trees. It is of average size (the 6'-7' size is also what we mostly consider a good size over here) and it only cost us 30€, so our prices here seem to be significantly lower than i…

We got our 1,7m large Christmas tree in Germany for 13 Euros, I simply don't understand how it could have been worth to let it grow for many years at this price.

Perhaps grown in e.g. Poland where land and manpower is lower priced, compared to Germany?

Ikea Sweden used to sell similar-priced christmas trees "farmed" in Denmark, but they stopped doing that after accusations that they were undermining local suppliers of non-herbicide-grown christmas trees. (In Sweden christmas trees tend to be expensive in cities and cheap/free in the countryside.)

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#70

Post by jdlshore »

fortran77 wrote: post #59
lotsofpulp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christmas trees are not religious, and is about as secular of a tradition as it gets.

All due respect, but you're free to observe your religion, I'm free to observe mine. Without forcing my opinions down other people's throats. That's what makes America great. A Christmas tree has no place in my home.

> All due respect, but

You’re not being respectful; you’re ignoring lotsofpulp’s point, reposting your own, and being more aggressive about it.

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