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Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

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Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#61

Post by crazygringo »

skavi wrote: post #6

> This EDR display philosophy is so important to Apple that they are willing to spend battery life on it. When you map “white” down to gray, you have to drive the LED backlight brighter for the same perceived screen brightness, using more power. Apple has your laptop doing this all the time, on the off chance that some HDR pixels come along to occupy that headroom. This is a bit misleading. The backlight isn’t at a h…

> just whenever any HDR encoded videos or EDR apps are open

Yup, I think this has to be the case. But the crazy thing is, I can't perceive any shift in UX brightness whatsoever, even a flicker, when I open/close an EDR video.

I would have thought that there would be some slight mismatch at the moment the backlight is brightened and pixels are darkened -- whether it would be a close but not perfect brightness match, or a flicker while they're not synced. But nothing.

As I mentioned in another comment, the only giveaway is that my cursor (mouse pointer) disappears for a second or two. I have to guess that adjusting its brightness happens at a different layer in the stack that can't be so precisely synced.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#62

Post by tesseract »

Androider wrote: post #57
crazygringo wrote: post #36

Wow, that's crazy, it actually works -- just tried out the sample videos in QuickTime on my 2016 13" MBP (P3 gamut, running Big Sur) and confirmed working. Basically: if I set my display to ~75% brightness and open the video, the whites in the video are 100% brightness, way brighter than #FFF interface white on the rest of my screen. But if I increase my display brightness to 100%, the whites in the video are the sam…

> it's flawlessly undetectable in terms of brightness -- the interface white and grays don't change at all. In order to pull this off, you need to know exactly how many nits bright the display is, as well as having complete software control of the actual hardware brightness. On Windows, you have neither. Enabling HDR mode completely throws off your current colors and desktop brightness and you have to reset both your…

Mac OS has also had system-wide color management and calibration (ColorSync) since the early 90s, part of its legacy of being the preferred platform for desktop publishing.

On Windows the systemwide "color management" basically consists of assigning a default color profile that applications can choose to use - which is generally only done by professional design/photo/video software, and not by the desktop or most "normal" apps.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#63

Post by gardaani »

AnssiH wrote: post #13

When still talking about mixed SDR+HDR content on a HDR display having differently mapped whites, the article says: > it’s strange and new, and possibly unique to Apple. But that is exactly how Windows 10 does it with HDR displays, too. So not really unique to Apple. To the article's benefit, it did say "possibly" :) I'm using Win 10 myself with an HDR display, and HDR white appears brighter than "desktop" white just…

The huge Windows flaw is that it isn't color managed by default. It means that colors in most applications look extra saturated on wide gamut displays. I wonder if it the same flaw applies to HDR.. apps would look extra bright.

Macs and its apps have been properly color managed for decades. That's why the transition from SDR to HDR monitors has been painless. Apps have been ready for it for a long time.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#64

Post by gardaani »

Macs can also play HDR content on external displays, such as HDR televisions and projectors. This document lists Mac models supporting HDR: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210980

I seems that the new MacBook Air with M1 can't play HDR content on external displays. :(

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#65

Post by Dahoon »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #52
blauditore wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is able to set entire new standards of expectation for customers that are _very_ hard for competitors to follow. The cheaper version of this display has a price tag of $5k, the more expensive one $6k. I never spent even remotely as much money on a display, so I cannot speak from first-hand experience. But a quick search for graphics-design displays yields several competitor products that have similar or bette…

> Apple does many things, but certainly not bleeding-edge innovation. What? Having been in the inner sanctum of engineering within Apple for years, that's exactly the engineering priority for groups I saw and worked within. I'm genuinely curious why you assert otherwise, find it surprising.

Apple is know for taking something others invented and making it better/more user-friendly. That's great but it isn't being bleeding edge. Like the first few iPhones. Smartphones made better, but without simple functions like copy and paste for generations. I find it surprising anyone thinks apple's strength is being bleeding edge innovative. It can be counted on one hand how many times they have been so.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#66

Post by Dahoon »

briandear wrote: post #42
blauditore wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is able to set entire new standards of expectation for customers that are _very_ hard for competitors to follow. The cheaper version of this display has a price tag of $5k, the more expensive one $6k. I never spent even remotely as much money on a display, so I cannot speak from first-hand experience. But a quick search for graphics-design displays yields several competitor products that have similar or bette…

What’s not revealed in “specs” is the quality of execution of those specs.

Ah, better pixels!

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#67

Post by jonplackett »

I noticed this 'extra bright whites in video' effect on my iPhone 12 just after upgrading. I had to go and shoot 'normal' + HDR video of the same thing a few times back and forth to be sure I knew what I was seeing.

The first thing you think is, how was I OK with this terrible standard video to begin with? The HDR version just looks SO MUCH better and the standard looks so flat next to it. Like comparing an old non HDR photo with an HDR one.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#68

Post by Synaesthesia »

sercand wrote: post #26

I just tested the sample file provided in the article at my Macbook with QuickTime, IIAN, and VLC. I can confirm the result in the article but it is Quick Time only. Colors in IIAN and VLC are not as bright as in the QuickTime.

I've noticed for a while that videos look different in Quicktime, vs VLC, MPV and other players. The colors are less saturated in QT.

Re: Apple’s “Extended Dynamic Range” Brings HDR to Non-HDR Displays

#69

Post by peregren »

Dahoon wrote: post #65
jjtheblunt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does many things, but certainly not bleeding-edge innovation. What? Having been in the inner sanctum of engineering within Apple for years, that's exactly the engineering priority for groups I saw and worked within. I'm genuinely curious why you assert otherwise, find it surprising.

Apple is know for taking something others invented and making it better/more user-friendly. That's great but it isn't being bleeding edge. Like the first few iPhones. Smartphones made better, but without simple functions like copy and paste for generations. I find it surprising anyone thinks apple's strength is being bleeding edge innovative. It can be counted on one hand how many times they have been so.

No sure about bleeding edge, because for the most part their products work but at different times they have defined:

- Phones, (Original iPhone way ahead of competitors)

- MP3 players (Original iPods)

- Tablets, (Pretty much the only serious tablet as far as I can see)

- Smart Watches, (Apple Watch still defines the category)

- Ultra Books, (First MacBook Air)

- All in One Desktop (iMac)

- Mobile CPUs (Apple silicon has been way ahead for years)

- Laptop CPUs (M1)

This doesn't just all happen by making existing things more "User Friendly". This takes real innovation to pull off.

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