The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’ • Hacker News Board

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#61

Post by colechristensen » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

otikik wrote: post #5

No mention of how to get out of this unhealthy habit. I'm struggling with this myself. Some of my conclusions so far: * When I am sleep-deprived I am less productive. So I spend more time doing "work". Then I have less time for everything else I want to do (family, cooking, sport). So I take more time away from sleep. And the cycle repeats. Sleep deprivation is self-perpetuating. * What I do at night, when I am exhau…

Watch the sun set!

I recently took a trip to the beach and spent a half hour or so outside in the transition between full light and darkness. It was surprising how tired I was feeling as early as it was. Let yourself experience the transition to night and then limit your light exposure.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#62

Post by Sharlin » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

SamBam wrote: post #50

Sharlin wrote: post #35

I mean, "me time" is not optional. How can life even be worth living if it's just a cycle of work and sleep?

That's very true. However, the activities described in the article -- "Rao would stay up surfing the internet, reading the news and watching online videos until well after midnight" -- don't sound like the kind of quality "me time" that makes life more worth living. I say this as someone trapped in a similar cycle. My wife and I are exhausted after both working from home and pandemic parenting/homeschooling every day…

I'm totally not convinced that surfing the internet or watching videos, however aimlessly, is somehow of lesser quality when it comes to relaxing. Especially given that, as you said, many people simply don't appear to have any mental energy left to do anything more "productive" after a workday, never mind a workday AND childcare. Of course, that's again a problem caused by work, not procrastination, but I very much challenge the notion that it's good for you to worry about whether your leisure time is of high enough quality!

Now, I do agree that social media and other things in the digital world can be actually addictive and psychologically harmful, but given the aforementioned state of mental exhaustion I'm totally not surprised that people should get hooked on things that are designed to continuously give your brain small rewards with minimum effort spent on your part.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#63

Post by umvi » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

throwawayyipyip wrote: post #57

It may raise eyebrows, but with the current WFH culture, I simply take naps during work time. If I feel tired, then it's in my and my employers' best interest for me to nap since I will be much more productive for the next few hours. I've tested this also by not sleeping, and my code becomes worse and I need to rewrite a lot of it anyway. In fairness, I do try to go to bed on time, but my issue is that I sometimes on…

I'm not sure I completely agree with this logic because you are saying "if I neglect in personal time, then it is in my and my employer's best interests for me to address during work time (because otherwise I will be less productive)"

However, X could be a wide range of things. To use an extreme example, I could neglect fixing my furnace during personal time, and thus I can do it on my employer's dime so that I don't die of carbon monoxide poisoning while WFH (I would be unproductive if I am dead)...

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#64

Post by glasss » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

SamBam wrote: post #50

Sharlin wrote: post #35

I mean, "me time" is not optional. How can life even be worth living if it's just a cycle of work and sleep?

That's very true. However, the activities described in the article -- "Rao would stay up surfing the internet, reading the news and watching online videos until well after midnight" -- don't sound like the kind of quality "me time" that makes life more worth living. I say this as someone trapped in a similar cycle. My wife and I are exhausted after both working from home and pandemic parenting/homeschooling every day…

The good thing about "me time" is that it's for ME. So you don't necessarily need to agree that it is quality "me time" for me to think that and enjoy it. In general I agree that spending time in front of a phone is not the best time spent, but if the goal is for individuals to enjoy themselves then it may best. I know lots of people that live for movies, shows, content from youtube, and more. So for them, spending a couple of hours in front of a phone watching their favorite show works as "me time"

I'm sure some people would love to spend their "me time" in the daylight, outside, or even being "productive" and learning new hobbies or practicing current ones. Unfortunately we have to prove value to society so we can get money for food and shelter.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#65

Post by baxtr » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

This is exactly what Netflix is betting on.

” Not Amazon Video, not YouTube, not even old-fashioned broadcasters. No, according to the company's chief executive, Reed Hastings, Netflix's biggest competitor is the pesky human need to close your eyes and sleep for a third of the day.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/18/netflix-c...

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#66

Post by umvi » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #40

umvi wrote: post #2

I find myself doing this too. My kids put such a large constraint on my free time that between work and family I only have 3 hours or less per day to do everything, so I am tempted to sacrifice sleep to gain a bit more book reading, side project, or video game time.

Why not include your family in your 'me time'? I always had my children with me when I was doing 'me things'. Including reading, video games, woodworking, hunting, hiking, and even meditation. For reference, I'm a super introverted person, and really need alone time to recharge my batteries. It's a nice way to instill values while also enjoying them while they're small. I mean, they will grow up eventually (really fa…

I do try... with some success. My kids are still very small though so they get bored after a few minutes if I am reading out loud from anything other than a children's book. We are still in the "high entropy" stage of childhood with most of our kids.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#67

Post by Sharlin » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #61

otikik wrote: post #5

No mention of how to get out of this unhealthy habit. I'm struggling with this myself. Some of my conclusions so far: * When I am sleep-deprived I am less productive. So I spend more time doing "work". Then I have less time for everything else I want to do (family, cooking, sport). So I take more time away from sleep. And the cycle repeats. Sleep deprivation is self-perpetuating. * What I do at night, when I am exhau…

Watch the sun set! I recently took a trip to the beach and spent a half hour or so outside in the transition between full light and darkness. It was surprising how tired I was feeling as early as it was. Let yourself experience the transition to night and then limit your light exposure.

Heh, around here (61° N) the sun currently sets at about 3:15 pm or so :D Need a light therapy lamp to convince my body that no, it's not time to go to sleep yet. Paradoxically, once it's actually time to go to sleep, my brain/body suddenly refuses to feel tired! Melatonin helps, though.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#68

Post by searine » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

throwawayyipyip wrote: post #57

It may raise eyebrows, but with the current WFH culture, I simply take naps during work time. If I feel tired, then it's in my and my employers' best interest for me to nap since I will be much more productive for the next few hours. I've tested this also by not sleeping, and my code becomes worse and I need to rewrite a lot of it anyway. In fairness, I do try to go to bed on time, but my issue is that I sometimes on…

Replace "nap" with any other life maintenance that is an impediment to work.

It is much quicker to just pause work for an hour, fix the problem and then get back to it. I'm not trapped in an office twiddling my thumbs while having to put off the problem for later.

I also find this makes me much more amenable to dealing with work problems on non-work hours. You aren't leeching my life problem solving time during the entire work day, so I don't have to be as protective of it when I'm on personal time.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#69

Post by baron_harkonnen » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

otikik wrote: post #5

No mention of how to get out of this unhealthy habit. I'm struggling with this myself. Some of my conclusions so far: * When I am sleep-deprived I am less productive. So I spend more time doing "work". Then I have less time for everything else I want to do (family, cooking, sport). So I take more time away from sleep. And the cycle repeats. Sleep deprivation is self-perpetuating. * What I do at night, when I am exhau…

It's pretty clear that the "unhealthy habit", like most unhealthy habits, is a symptom not the disease.

In this article the problem is being overworked. The solution isn't to remove that little bit of extra pleasure from your life so you can sleep better and be an even better, harder worker, but to find a better balance.

If you have this problem is very likely because you have a major part of your life you don't feel like you have control over: maybe your jobs is awful, maybe your marriage is awful, maybe you just feel too stressed about the world.

Treating the symptom and not the root cause will not yield the results you are looking for even if you succeed.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#70

Post by hardenedapple » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 4:02 PM UTC

otikik wrote: post #5

No mention of how to get out of this unhealthy habit. I'm struggling with this myself. Some of my conclusions so far: * When I am sleep-deprived I am less productive. So I spend more time doing "work". Then I have less time for everything else I want to do (family, cooking, sport). So I take more time away from sleep. And the cycle repeats. Sleep deprivation is self-perpetuating. * What I do at night, when I am exhau…

I fall into that habit a lot. For me it largely comes from a feeling that there are a large number of tasks that I have to get done.

The biggest thing I do to overcome that is to take a day off and don't do anything productive at all (easy if it happens to fall on a weekend, more effective if I do it on a weekday). This breaks the first step -- less productive does not mean spend more time working, it means taking time off to recover.

For me it's about "reminding myself I don't have to do things". That voice in my head telling me how vital it is I get all the things done is just one voice. All I need to do is work well enough to ensure me and my family are fed, clothed and have somewhere to sleep.