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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#61

Post by treis »

pvg wrote: post #50
RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

The external investigators were hired and paid for by Coinbase and we know nothing about the details of their findings (or who they even were) other than that single mention in the company's own blog post. There's no mention in the post about 'data' shared with the NYT, they just told them the investigations cleared them. Here's NYT's version: Ms. Milosevich said Coinbase hired a consultant over the summer who did in…

As far as I can tell the NYTimes was unable to find evidence either. There's no corroborating witness, emails, slacks, voicemails, statistics, or anything else concrete that you can point at in the article. It's a collection of accusations and color to lend them credence.

When a group of people say they see smoke I tend to believe them. But I'm also not a national news paper. I'd have like to see the NYTimes get some concrete facts before making such a serious accusation.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#62

Post by yunohn »

treis wrote: post #61
pvg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The external investigators were hired and paid for by Coinbase and we know nothing about the details of their findings (or who they even were) other than that single mention in the company's own blog post. There's no mention in the post about 'data' shared with the NYT, they just told them the investigations cleared them. Here's NYT's version: Ms. Milosevich said Coinbase hired a consultant over the summer who did in…

As far as I can tell the NYTimes was unable to find evidence either. There's no corroborating witness, emails, slacks, voicemails, statistics, or anything else concrete that you can point at in the article. It's a collection of accusations and color to lend them credence. When a group of people say they see smoke I tend to believe them. But I'm also not a national news paper. I'd have like to see the NYTimes get some…

The NYT are not the police/FBI. They do not have access to those things, unless employees are able to exfiltrate said info at significant personal risk.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#63

Post by vmception »

I was willing to support the general message Brian Armstrong put out, but with the added context and chronology I cannot.

I would say that this kind of mission statement can only work if done at the beginning, as reacting in response to the work environment described by their employees was doomed for failure.

I know many people like Brian Armstrong, and the investors. They are all cut from a similar cloth and they honestly have no clue how to react. They don't know how to get women on a panel, they don't know how to get qualified people of color in positions to change things. They are just told what they did wrong and just shut themselves off from it. The very people with power to change anything get marginalized themselves. And yes, some - not all - of them actually are not interested in inclusion or really are racist and sexist. But for the former, there is room to empathize with these kind of people to steer their energy in more productive ways.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#64

Post by oh_sigh »

slg wrote: post #57
oh_sigh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fact, but it means nothing without context. I punched a man in the face yesterday. To determine if I'm a violent person it's important to know whether I punched a man who was pushing his child on a swing set, or whether I punched a man who was crawling through a window in my home.

What context would exonerate Coinbase of fostering an environment that results in 75% of its Black employees feeling discriminated against? And if that context existed, why didn't Coinbase mention it in their preemptive rebuttal?

I can think of contexts, especially when n=15(if this was a statistical study on insulin response to artificial sweeteners, people would be saying the sample size is too small to draw conclusions), but I don't know if developing hypothetical scenarios is useful.

Learning the true context is most important. This could be done by corroborating allegations for example.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#65

Post by RestlessMind »

vmception wrote: post #63

I was willing to support the general message Brian Armstrong put out, but with the added context and chronology I cannot. I would say that this kind of mission statement can only work if done at the beginning, as reacting in response to the work environment described by their employees was doomed for failure. I know many people like Brian Armstrong, and the investors. They are all cut from a similar cloth and they ho…

From Coinbase's "About us"[1]

> They don't know how to get women on a panel

2 out of 7 members of the exec team are women.

> they don't know hot to get qualified people of color in positions to change things

4 out of 7 members of the exec team have last names of Choi, Chatterjee, Grewal, Gupta.

It's almost as if you have strong biases (or delusions) and didn't even do a basic fact check before making bold claims against Coinbase.

[1] https://www.coinbase.com/about

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#66

Post by polartx »

tptacek wrote: post #60
zpeti wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the CEO refusing to align with far left politics? Whether you think that is good or bad, that could well be the reason for them leaving, but it doesn't actually mean that there was overt racism.

I don't understand the premise here. Most of their Black employees left, not their far left employees.

If you’re truly ignorant to the social pressures the black community places on each other (specifically the prevailing majority on the ‘dissident’ thinkers), than it’s a topic I suggest you read in to.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#67

Post by tptacek »

polartx wrote: post #66
tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the premise here. Most of their Black employees left, not their far left employees.

If you’re truly ignorant to the social pressures the black community places on each other (specifically the prevailing majority on the ‘dissident’ thinkers), than it’s a topic I suggest you read in to.

Black Democrats (most Black people are Democrats, something for which there is some social pressure) are generally more conservative, and significantly more religious, than other Democrats. So: no, this isn't responsive to what I said.

(One good source: White & Laird).

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#69

Post by treis »

yunohn wrote: post #62
treis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell the NYTimes was unable to find evidence either. There's no corroborating witness, emails, slacks, voicemails, statistics, or anything else concrete that you can point at in the article. It's a collection of accusations and color to lend them credence. When a group of people say they see smoke I tend to believe them. But I'm also not a national news paper. I'd have like to see the NYTimes get some…

The NYT are not the police/FBI. They do not have access to those things, unless employees are able to exfiltrate said info at significant personal risk.

Seems a bit incongruous to suggest that people willing and able to accuse Coinbase of racism in the NYTimes are not willing or able to exfiltrate evidence of those accusations.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#70

Post by fractionalhare »

oh_sigh wrote: post #64
slg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What context would exonerate Coinbase of fostering an environment that results in 75% of its Black employees feeling discriminated against? And if that context existed, why didn't Coinbase mention it in their preemptive rebuttal?

I can think of contexts, especially when n=15(if this was a statistical study on insulin response to artificial sweeteners, people would be saying the sample size is too small to draw conclusions), but I don't know if developing hypothetical scenarios is useful. Learning the true context is most important. This could be done by corroborating allegations for example.

> I can think of contexts

Yes that's what was asked; which ones?

> especially when n=15(if this was a statistical study on insulin response to artificial sweeteners, people would be saying the sample size is too small to draw conclusions)

And those people would be wrong. It's incorrect to dismiss a study based on sample size without a discussion of significance and effect size in the context of the data.

Moreover I reject the premise that you should be assessing this story quantitatively rather than qualitatively. But if you insist: what are your priors on whether or not a given company engaged in discrimination, and how do these change if you're told 75% of employees of a particular demographic stated there was discrimination?

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