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AWS Cognito is having issues and health dashboards are still green

status.aws.amazon.com

61–70 of 369 posts

Re: AWS Cognito is having issues and health dashboards are still green

#61
post #25

Can anyone explain why status pages are so difficult. Theres even statups like status.io dedicated to this one thing. It really does seem that anytime there is an outage more often than not the status page is showing all green traffic lights. Making it redundant as a tool to corroborate whats happening. How did AWS status page compare with status.io/aws?

> Can anyone explain why status pages are so difficult.

What is an outage? When does an outage reach sufficient scale that updating the status page is the right thing to do?

I used to work for AWS, and now work for another cloud provider.

One thing that's hard to communicate is the sheer scale that these services operate at, what that means architecturally, and how they tend to break.

Outages, even just slight degradation, occurring on a whole service scale are very rare. I would argue from my experiences there that most incidents affect less than 10% of any given service's customers. Whether it gets noticed in part depends on who is encompassed by that percentage.

What is very often the case is that a subset of customers get impacted to some degree during any given incident. That can be even things like single percentage of customers or less, but be an incident that has all hands to deck and the entire management chain of the service aware and involved in.

At what percentage do you draw the line and say "Yes we need this many percentage of our customers to be affected before we post a green-i" (AWS terminology for the first stage of failure notification).

How do you communicate that effectively to customers, in such a way that doesn't suggest your service is unreliable when it really isn't.

The moment you post a green-i or above, customers start blaming you and your service for problems with their infrastructure that are not caused by it. If you're looking to use a service and go look at the status history and see it filled with green-i or similar, are you likely to trust it? No. Even if those green-i's were for impacts on a limited subset of customers.

AWS wrestled with this a bunch about 5-6 years ago. There were no end of discussions during the weekly ops meetings with senior leadership, directors and engineers across the company. Everyone wants to do the right thing and make sure customers get an accurate picture about the health of the service, without giving the wrong impression.

In the end they opted to move towards having personal notifications for outages, and build tooling to help services quickly identify which customers are being affected by any particular incident and provide personalised status pages for them that can be way more accurate than any generalised status page.

Re: AWS Cognito is having issues and health dashboards are still green

#62
post #25

Can anyone explain why status pages are so difficult. Theres even statups like status.io dedicated to this one thing. It really does seem that anytime there is an outage more often than not the status page is showing all green traffic lights. Making it redundant as a tool to corroborate whats happening. How did AWS status page compare with status.io/aws?

When your company gets sufficiently large, outages become political. Failure happens at the speed of computing but agreeing that something is failing in a way that customers need to be told about is a slower process. Even when status pages are fully automatic (rather than manually updated), there will tend to be gaming of the metrics that constitute that. Ideally you would just be monitoring your SLOs and publishing…

And not just outages, but security incidents. I’ve worked at/with/for many companies as both an employee and a consultant where the top priority wasn’t to have fewer security incidents, but to have fewer security incidents that would require disclosure.

Publicly disclosing an incident to a customer is embarrassing and potentially damaging but almost equally as damaging is telling other teams you had an incident. Now anything that goes wrong is your fault by default because “it’s probably related to that incident” and any new security policies are blamed on the other team: “we wouldn’t have to do that if Ops didn’t mess up last month”.

The answer to “is this service suffering an outage” is seriously complex and hard to determine. The answer to “is this a security incident” is 10x harder and 100x more political because the industry is still just so wildly immature.

Re: AWS Cognito is having issues and health dashboards are still green

#63

Isn't it common practice to host your status board on someone else's infrastructure? In 2017 there was an S3 issue that supposedly affected their ability to post. I believe they said that they were updating how they posted to the status board so that there would no longer be a dependency on S3. Well, I guess whatever they're dependent on now broke.

It's common practice for small players but Amazon, Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud host their status pages on their own servers because they value the marketing aspect higher than a functioning status page for their customers.

Re: AWS Cognito is having issues and health dashboards are still green

#64
post #8

> It's not posted on SHD as the issue has impacted our ability to post there. Is that not a massive catch-22 for a service dashboard?

Reminds me of a recent outage from IBM Cloud, where the VPN was hosted on IBM Cloud so employees couldn’t log in to fix it, and the email is hosted on IBM Cloud so support teams couldn’t email customers to let them know and even access to their Twitter was behind the non-functional VPN so they couldn’t tweet during the outage either.

Re: AWS Cognito is having issues and health dashboards are still green

#65
post #25

Can anyone explain why status pages are so difficult. Theres even statups like status.io dedicated to this one thing. It really does seem that anytime there is an outage more often than not the status page is showing all green traffic lights. Making it redundant as a tool to corroborate whats happening. How did AWS status page compare with status.io/aws?

I completely agree, but can we talk for a second how absurd it is charging 90$ for essentially a service that just pings your infrastructure?

Re: AWS Cognito is having issues and health dashboards are still green

#67
post #53
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did. It came up in the post incident report, and senior leadership kicked off work to have it run on its own distinct infrastructure so that this wouldn't happen again. If you look at where the content on https://status.aws.amazon.com/ is actually hosted from you'll see things like the status icons are all hosted under the same domain, e.g. https://status.aws.amazon.com/images/status1.gif https://status.aws.amaz…

K so they avoided that problem, but something similar has obviously gone wrong again, considering that Kinesis had been partially or fully down for almost an hour before the status page got their first update. And the fact remains that currently an outage of AWS's own infrastructure is impacting AWS's ability to status updates on its own status dashboard. It's just seems so... amateurish.

That's incredibly annoying, given the mandate the replacement service had.

I'd be curious to be a fly on the wall during the next Ops meeting when it comes up that yet again the status dashboard got made in a way that makes it hard to update during an outage.

Re: AWS Cognito is having issues and health dashboards are still green

#70
post #14

what a scam. who can hold them accountable for cheating those who paid for uptime guarantees? I guess the lawyers of those who paid for uptime guarantees...

This is a relevant comment. I agree. Who will hold them accountable for violating uptime guarantees? Nobody? Then what's the point or purpose of an uptime guarantee? Marketing value?

If it’s in a contract, companies can sue. And big enough customers who have lost enough money due to the outage would definitely threaten to sue to recover that money.
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