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Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#61

Post by bserge »

snypher wrote: post #39
FatalLogic wrote: post #8

If he joined the video conference to watch and listen, but just sent a blank screen video, or maybe a freeze frame of an empty chair, would anyone have noticed?

I remember being in voice chat for a space spreadsheet game [0] and hearing the 'ding' for a new user joining the channel. Everyone knew to stop taking lest a spy discover where our fleet was. I really hope there's a similar reaction in these chats! [0]eve-online.com

Corporation and guild leaders really should put that on their CVs, it's literally management experience!

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#62

Post by bserge »

mschuster91 wrote: post #50
fakedang wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU militaries are a joke tbf. Apart from France and (formerly) the UK, most of them can't do shit except sell firearms to Arab despots. I think someone from Romania here mentioned that they trust the US to protect them more than they trust France or Germany.

German here, you're right. The biggest part of the problem is that historically there are only three superpowers in the EU - France, UK and Germany. The UK is gone off the rails, the French can't pick up the slack for everyone else alone and us Germans are (out of very valid historical concern) extremely wary of pulling our weight on the international stage. Add to this that the EU is corrosively fractured, nowhere n…

Is Germany really that reserved because of the last world war? I mean, I get that it was bad, but it's history.

Everyone else who has a very similar history (even though it's painted in a better light by the media) has moved on.

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#63

Post by AsyncAwait »

andrepd wrote: post #31

This is profoundly depressing. The fact that an EU defence conference is being held... on Zoom, is truly a microcosm of what has been the strategic policy of the EU for the past 20-30 years. We have sold off our independence, out advantages economic and otherwise, for pennies . For minuscule short-term gains, we have sold off our industry, our tech, to a hostile and totalitarian government. Well when I say "we" I mea…

> It will come soon a time (in fact, it's pretty much here already) where China calls the shots over us.

The U.S. already does that. Why is that any better?

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#64

Post by smabie »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #63
andrepd wrote: post #31

This is profoundly depressing. The fact that an EU defence conference is being held... on Zoom, is truly a microcosm of what has been the strategic policy of the EU for the past 20-30 years. We have sold off our independence, out advantages economic and otherwise, for pennies . For minuscule short-term gains, we have sold off our industry, our tech, to a hostile and totalitarian government. Well when I say "we" I mea…

> It will come soon a time (in fact, it's pretty much here already) where China calls the shots over us. The U.S. already does that. Why is that any better?

Would you rather have the US tell you what to do or China?

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#65

Post by numpad0 »

Moodles wrote: post #38
rscho wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of GP is that Zoom is american software, regardless of any particular issue related to the app itself. Which IMO, is a very crucial point. A EU security conference should use EU software, and as little foreign stuff as possible. Otherwise, it's just theater (and it currently really is just that!).

All of Zoom’s security team is based in the US to be fair. I don’t really agree in general that the X-conference should use X-software.

Kinda cool if defense conferences were done using some defense apps that works, so that in case of a Soviet or Romulan invasion or whatever, military generals and SecDefs could just open their defense laptop and resume on defense discussions, though granted the world don’t have runaway Soviet threats anymore.

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#66

Post by TeMPOraL »

rscho wrote: post #34
Moodles wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Zoom security debate has been hashed to death on HN lately, but Webex for example patched some RCEs only a couple weeks ago. I’m not fully convinced Zoom is objectively less secure than all the other alternatives these days. They just get a lot more attention for it. Besides, if the EU defence conference had an open URL or weak password that issue would apply regardless of Zoom, Webex, etc.

The point of GP is that Zoom is american software, regardless of any particular issue related to the app itself. Which IMO, is a very crucial point. A EU security conference should use EU software, and as little foreign stuff as possible. Otherwise, it's just theater (and it currently really is just that!).

> The point of GP is that Zoom is american software,

Wait. Isn't Zoom Chinese software?

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#67

Post by throwaway189262 »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #63
andrepd wrote: post #31

This is profoundly depressing. The fact that an EU defence conference is being held... on Zoom, is truly a microcosm of what has been the strategic policy of the EU for the past 20-30 years. We have sold off our independence, out advantages economic and otherwise, for pennies . For minuscule short-term gains, we have sold off our industry, our tech, to a hostile and totalitarian government. Well when I say "we" I mea…

> It will come soon a time (in fact, it's pretty much here already) where China calls the shots over us. The U.S. already does that. Why is that any better?

If china bullies too much the US and Europe will ally together against them.

The difference between the US and China's government is that almost nobody likes China. The US, at least before recent political developments, tries to make sure that agreements benefit both sides.

The US is also a democracy that respects freedom of the press and human rights to a degree. China doesn't give a shit about any of that.

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#68

Post by mschuster91 »

bserge wrote: post #62
mschuster91 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German here, you're right. The biggest part of the problem is that historically there are only three superpowers in the EU - France, UK and Germany. The UK is gone off the rails, the French can't pick up the slack for everyone else alone and us Germans are (out of very valid historical concern) extremely wary of pulling our weight on the international stage. Add to this that the EU is corrosively fractured, nowhere n…

Is Germany really that reserved because of the last world war? I mean, I get that it was bad, but it's history. Everyone else who has a very similar history (even though it's painted in a better light by the media) has moved on.

Germany caused not one but two world wars and is, despite being beaten almost to death after ww2, once again the dominant power in the EU. Let's face it we usually get what we want even without having a competitive military - if we had there would not be much to stop us.

I'm actually grateful that our leaders have been and still are mindful of that fact.

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#69

Post by mschuster91 »

vagrantJin wrote: post #58
cptnapalm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was chatter about this back in the mid-2000s about the EU forming their own independent foreign policy. There was lots of ink spilled about the EU's soft power which evaporated as it turns out soft power doesn't exist without hard power. Obama lamented the "free rider" problem where much of the EU wouldn't live up to their treaty obligations. The EU wasn't on a leash; it just didn't bother.

By a leash I mean being a freeloader at your friends house with his wife and kids. He says its ok because he has known you since you were toddlers. That's the leash. The EU didnt bother on account of the US taxpayer footing the bill regardless thus removing their freedom of action and their seat on the table. They've gotten so feeble, no one even cares.

> The EU didnt bother on account of the US taxpayer footing the bill regardless

The US didn't just burn that money for naught, they got something from all that investment and that is that they were for all intents and purposes the leader of the world, both in "soft power" and "hard power".

The problem is that it is very hard to quantify the benefits while it's extremely easy to quantify the costs.

Re: Dutch journalist gatecrashes EU defence video conference

#70

Post by TeMPOraL »

jakub_g wrote: post #43
j0057 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd imagine, but this conference software apparently only requires a pin that's visible as a GET parameter in the URL. I don't think you can blame the users for posting a screen shot.

Zoom introduced meeting passwords a few months ago after similar issues to prevent randos joining meetings by guessing short meeting IDs. But there's a tradeoff between security and usability so they accept passwords as a param in URL, which for 95% cases is a good tradeoff (for example Outlook Zoom plugin generates the URL with password directly in meeting invites). Most people don't live-share their super secret in…

Or, they could use a hash of the password in the URL, that's always longer than what will fit in the visible part of the address box.
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