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Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

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Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#61

Post by keutoi »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #47
sokoloff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect if you let these tickets become market-priced like airline seats, you wouldn’t have these problems either. I think the core issue is that the rail operator (gov) for whatever reason wants these last-minute tickets to be available at an artificially low ticket price. That’s not what airlines are trying to do. Trying to build a system that works with the natural effects of markets is much easier than creating…

wouldnt keeping a fixed price solve the issue? >This does not appear to be a primarily technical problem. If these tickets sell out in 10 minutes, creating a better technical solution to let them sell out in 2 minutes isn’t actually improving anything meaningful. i am sorry i don't understand how is forcing users to buy those tickets in 10 minutes instead of efficient 2 minutes helping anybody? its not like i can jus…

This a probably a symptom of a much deeper problem. In theory tickets are non-transferable, but it is not enforced at all. A passenger train carries more than 500 people and if someone gets caught they just bribe out of the problem. Since the ground level problems are hard to solve, a solution at the top gave IRCTC some power to control and lower the available black market tickets. When the problem with identity and transferable tickets is solved then I think technical problems will be resolved.

Keep in mind Identity is hard to check and for rural passengers. There were very few such documents before AADHAAR etc.

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#63

Post by michaelt »

inapis wrote: post #52
C1sc0cat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you mean "hog" all the tickets just make them non transferable if they are already not.

Tickets are non-transferable but bribery is still a thing, especially where demand far outstrips the supply. Second, fake IDs are easy to make. Third, it's impractical to enforce on the ground. Indian Railways is relatively open access compared to airlines. On average, trains begin boarding 15-30 mins prior to departure and have a very high number of passengers. With an avg of 16 coaches per rake, with each coach hav…

So the government-run rail services don't provide enough capacity, the government's employees are corrupt, the government-issued ID documents are easily faked, and the solution is... to make government's train website slow and unreliable?

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#64

Post by sriku »

moh_maya wrote: post #8
ch_123 wrote: post #3

The headline has been editorialized. While I don't agree with what the authorities did here, and believe the developer was acting in good faith, the developer created an app for buying railway tickets which charged a small fee for the tickets - the issue was that he was arrested for making money off ticket sales, as opposed to "automating forms on a website"

Yep. He circumvented rate-limiters that ensured that you couldn't game the booking system. The regulations very clearly prohibit this to ensure fair access. Now, one can absolutely argue about whether this form of rate limiting is the right approach, but to circumvent something that is clearly prohibited & charge money to do that is illegal. This does not mean that I think the current system is perfect OR that there…

I agree this needs more nuance instead of pitching it as a david-vs-goliath. The railways has made steady progress on making it easier to ticket starting with an old mainframe system and transitioning into the web age. Such transitions at the scale of Indian Railways are not to be underestimated and it is not only about a website as real physical trains are involved. They've introduced interim measures to ensure reasonably fair access to seats since they need to cater to a financially spread out populace and there is always someone waiting to make a quick buck out of it. The rate limits are important I think to not overwhelm the system and I do not for a moment believe that IRCTC is working against the people here. I say that from personal experience where one of the IT ops lead personally responded to an email suggestion I sent in (exchange was about 15y ago) to enable people without credit cards to more easily purchase tickets without dealing with long queues at counters.

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#65

Post by sriku »

inapis wrote: post #46
smdz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a case of 'BUREAUCRATS STIFLING INNOVATION' and this is how it often looks like. He could have gone through legal channels to approve his app and would not be able to find approvals even after being able to afford those financially. Fair access is not provided by the official website. When one clicks "Book" and then suddenly get an Internal Server Error in network logs (while UI shows in-progress icon) or get…

> Fair access is not provided by the official website. When one clicks "Book" and then suddenly get an Internal Server Error in network logs (while UI shows in-progress icon) or gets logged out - where is Fair Access? If Railways gave 10 Rs for each such failure, they will go bankrupt within 2 hours. First-come-first-serve does not mean fair access when they can't fix their technical problems. I am not sure if you kn…

I believe this is the right explanation .. and I also agree that the experience has been readily getting better .. both the trains themselves and the ticketing system.

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#66

Post by tartoran »

dsq wrote: post #22
Karupan wrote: post #4

People outside India may not realize the importance of train tickets and how difficult they can be to book. Trains are still the primary mode of transport for long distance travel and some routes get booked out in minutes after reservations open. There have been ticket mafias who mass book tickets and resell them in the black market for a huge profit. I do appreciate that the developer was solving a genuine need, so…

If indeed there is a mafia-controlled black market in ticket sales, perhaps the mafia got a corrupt bureaucrat to use state force to shut down competition.

That’s not unheard of.

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#67

Post by sriku »

inapis wrote: post #52
C1sc0cat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you mean "hog" all the tickets just make them non transferable if they are already not.

Tickets are non-transferable but bribery is still a thing, especially where demand far outstrips the supply. Second, fake IDs are easy to make. Third, it's impractical to enforce on the ground. Indian Railways is relatively open access compared to airlines. On average, trains begin boarding 15-30 mins prior to departure and have a very high number of passengers. With an avg of 16 coaches per rake, with each coach hav…

I don't recall a single instance of corruption with the Indian railways at the consumer level in nearly 2 decades including an instance when I was fined for not purchasing a platform ticket which would've been an opportunity for the officer to ask for a bribe but he didn't.

I don't think I'd faking or bribery are big issues with ticketing any more. It is most likely equitable access between the "internet haves" and "the internet have nots".

Re: Indian developer jailed for making unauthorized train ticket booking app

#69

Post by sokoloff »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #47
sokoloff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect if you let these tickets become market-priced like airline seats, you wouldn’t have these problems either. I think the core issue is that the rail operator (gov) for whatever reason wants these last-minute tickets to be available at an artificially low ticket price. That’s not what airlines are trying to do. Trying to build a system that works with the natural effects of markets is much easier than creating…

wouldnt keeping a fixed price solve the issue? >This does not appear to be a primarily technical problem. If these tickets sell out in 10 minutes, creating a better technical solution to let them sell out in 2 minutes isn’t actually improving anything meaningful. i am sorry i don't understand how is forcing users to buy those tickets in 10 minutes instead of efficient 2 minutes helping anybody? its not like i can jus…

> wouldnt keeping a fixed price solve the issue?

It depends on what “the issue” is. If the issue is that they want to allow some poor-but-lucky people to win the right to buy tickets below the market-clearing price, then keeping a fixed price doesn’t solve that issue.

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