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Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

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Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#61

Post by jccooper »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #37

At the original 60oz/$800 million dollars, would that make it the most expensive bit of mineral on Earth in 2023?

That's $13,333,333.33/oz, if you charge the whole cost to sample collection. They also get plenty of other science observations, but the main point was sample return.

Apollo brought back 842lb of samples for something like $260 billion (inflation adjusted), that being $19,299,287.41/oz.

Of course, science was basically a side-effect of Apollo, so you can't really charge it all to sample collection. But if you did, the moon rocks are pricier.

Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#63

Post by doodlebugging »

rtkwe wrote: post #59
doodlebugging wrote: post #54

After watching the video from Scott Manley (great video) I can see how the sampling mechanism is supposed to work. I wonder whether they can make use of momentum to close the sample doors and capture the samples preventing closure. Since there are some chunks preventing closure and they had planned to be able to sample more than once in the event that the first attempt didn't recover enough material that means that t…

The sample doors are just a flap that gets blown open by the nitrogen during sample gathering then springs shut, there's no direct control over them, the solution is to just pack it away in the return canister very carefully.

I figured it couldn't be that easy or they would already have considered it. Springs are probably more reliable for that application on a spacecraft. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#64

Post by Thorentis »

JshWright wrote: post #4

As with all "current events in space", Scott Manley has an excellent video on this. https://youtu.be/cmQfWuFbLNg

At 2:15 he discusses how NASA was completely wrong about the surface of the asteroid based on their initial thermal inertia analysis. While I don't pretend to be an expert, it's stuff like this that really makes me doubt how much we really know about distant parts of the universe. This asteroid is so much closer to Earth than many galaxies and other objects scientists claim to know something about. Of course, science is all about being wrong, refining the model, trying again etc. but my default reaction to any claim made about age/size/composition/distance, is immediate skepticism for this reason.

Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#65

Post by trynewideas »

rtkwe wrote: post #60
moron4hire wrote: post #45

I'm sure NASA has thought of this, but won't the mylar film close if the sampling disk loses some material, before it loses all of its material? Why not give it a shake to get some of it out so the seal can close?

If there's a piece wedged tightly in there it could let most of the rest of the sample out without dislodging the piece holding it open.

How bad would it be if a piece large enough to wedge the entire container open was the _only_ piece we recover? How big would that piece have to be? Are they expecting a certain diversity in the sample that would be lost if they only got one huge piece?

Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#66

Post by rtkwe »

trynewideas wrote: post #65
rtkwe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's a piece wedged tightly in there it could let most of the rest of the sample out without dislodging the piece holding it open.

How bad would it be if a piece large enough to wedge the entire container open was the _only_ piece we recover? How big would that piece have to be? Are they expecting a certain diversity in the sample that would be lost if they only got one huge piece?

I think the scientific goal was 60 grams which is more than just one piece at the size of the gathering head so they'd have to decide which tests they would actually do instead of being able to do all of the planned tests. So yeah just getting one larger piece would be a loss for the mission.

Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#67

Post by rtkwe »

doodlebugging wrote: post #63
rtkwe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sample doors are just a flap that gets blown open by the nitrogen during sample gathering then springs shut, there's no direct control over them, the solution is to just pack it away in the return canister very carefully.

I figured it couldn't be that easy or they would already have considered it. Springs are probably more reliable for that application on a spacecraft. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

My rule of thumb is NASA/JPL/JAXA/ESA are full of far smarter people than me so if I think of it in 5 minutes they definitely thought of it already and have a binder full of reasons it's not the best option.

Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#68

Post by manquer »

moron4hire wrote: post #24
shadowgovt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, most of us don't have the luxury of working in environment where (a) it's mandated that we set up a 1-for-1 test rig with the production infrastructure and (b) management will accept the answer "I need to test for all possible contingencies because failure is not an option." (Most of us are writing code in an environment where failure is totally an option, as long as it's fast and restoration is quick ;) ).

Another part of the difficulty with updating servers is that updates are rather opaque. My own software on any given server is maybe 0.1% of all the software running on it (if even that). The other 99.9% is someone else's code: the operating system, the software runtime, the libraries, etc. So one doesn't really have a lot of insight into what is about to happen to the server without running a duplicate setup, which…

While the abstractions is lesser for a spacecraft, I don't think any one is hand compiling or writing machine code directly. There will always be some abstraction layers.

Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#69

Post by ChicagoBoy11 »

jccooper wrote: post #61
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #37

At the original 60oz/$800 million dollars, would that make it the most expensive bit of mineral on Earth in 2023?

That's $13,333,333.33/oz, if you charge the whole cost to sample collection. They also get plenty of other science observations, but the main point was sample return. Apollo brought back 842lb of samples for something like $260 billion (inflation adjusted), that being $19,299,287.41/oz. Of course, science was basically a side-effect of Apollo, so you can't really charge it all to sample collection. But if you did, th…

I appreciate you doing the math! Kinda amusing that it comes out to roughly the same order of magnitude!

Re: Asteroid samples escaping from jammed NASA spacecraft

#70

Post by zrkrlc »

Thorentis wrote: post #64
JshWright wrote: post #4

As with all "current events in space", Scott Manley has an excellent video on this. https://youtu.be/cmQfWuFbLNg

At 2:15 he discusses how NASA was completely wrong about the surface of the asteroid based on their initial thermal inertia analysis. While I don't pretend to be an expert, it's stuff like this that really makes me doubt how much we really know about distant parts of the universe. This asteroid is so much closer to Earth than many galaxies and other objects scientists claim to know something about. Of course, science…

Well, we're entering the golden age of space exploration right now, so let's see how that gap closes by the next decade or so.
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