Live data from Hacker News

Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

thedorkweb.substack.com

61–70 of 87 posts

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#61

Science fiction was born as a critique of social constructs. The sci-fi patina was less of a Branded Genre Thing and more of a wink-and-nod to make the critique acceptable in the public sphere. Solarpunk, like all the other ___punks, is just another Thing that people like. This is why you sometimes hear authors dump on "genre fiction," because making aesthetics the guiding star of a story doesn't usually make for com…

While I agree there is no need to brand everything, it can serve a useful purpose, eg especially if a philosophy wants to try to spread a shift in thinking around reducing consumerism/how we live etc. This could be seen as 'tech-hippie' or other such labels, 'solarpunk' seems quite descriptive in that way. Being able to succinctly describe a philosophy that might agree with your life choices and values, it can also help reinforce those ideas to yourself in hard times as well as organize + discus with others who might share some overlap of values.

'in-groups and out-groups' and division can result from this but doesn't have to, it's not a given. Like a lot of philosophies, gate keeping via some kind of strict rules/definition I've found is usually (not always) done for other reasons by self proclaimed leaders. Being inclusive, from a community stand point, commonly is pushed aside by those that want to min/max some profitable (monetary, power, influence etc) aspect of that community causing said division. So while it might not need a name, a narrative around those ideas with a name does improve the ability to spread those values, 'solarpunk' being a brand isn't inherently bad.

We do have "very real, very big problems", ones that will need an almost unthinkable amount of cooperation to resolve. These aren't purely tech problems, these are largely social problems, and narrative/branding is immensely powerful in that sense. And all these possible solutions (technical or otherwise) are individually only going to solve small parts, slowly but surely as people work extremely hard on all these very real and hard problems, we move towards a new 'normal' without those problems, but during that long long time without those touch stones of values as reminders of _why_, it is very easy to lose focus. Narrative and branding can help solidify those ideas.

It's kind of funny in a sad way that some of the biggest companies in the world are advertising companies but when those same techniques are even slightly used and not rammed down our throats we pick up on those methods and say they are not needed. To solve those very real, very big problems, I'd say we should use everything we can to move the needle in positive direction and that 'branding', in that sense, is needed to drive the level of cooperation to address them. Maybe not the branding of 'solarpunk' but if that resonates with people, I'm all for it.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#62

The one problem I have with solarpunk is that much of the fiction is simply not that good. I think most emblematic of that is maybe Cory Doctorow's book "Walkaway". I have lately come to accept that the book had a huge influence on me; it just keeps coming up in conversation. Well... I bring it up, because it struck a chord, and because it fits well with the conversations I have. But the writing is so.... aaaargh, so…

Another solarpunk influence is Ursula Le Guin. The issue is that Le Guin is a one-of-a-kind, amazingly good writer and most solarpunk writers...aren't that.

I tried to read the Left Hand of Darkness but just gave up. Although her descriptive style is warm and enjoyable I found the story unplausible, like a fairytale for adults.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#63
post #22

many of you here in the comments misunderstand. punk isn't nihilistic lamentation, it's nihilistic resistance. it's punk to fight . it's building anything from nothing, because there is nothing to lose. punk cultures appear within dystopia as an alternative, punk aesthetic is amateur and diy-accessible, and punk attitudes are critical and creative. we have enough dystopic warnings. everyone knows where we're headed.…

Is it just your interpretation of what “punk” in “cyberpunk” means? The author of the word seems to disagree with you: http://www.textfiles.com/russian/cyberlib.narod.ru/lib/criti....

>The kids who trashed my computer; their kids were going to be Holy Terrors, combining the ethical vacuity of teenagers with a technical fluency we adults could only guess at. Further, the parents and other adult authority figures of the early 21st Century were going to be terribly ill-equipped to deal with the first generation of teenagers who grew up truly "speaking computer."

>THEREFORE, if you thought that punks on motorcycles were a problem, just wait until you meet the -- the -- You know, there isn't a good word to describe them?

>So I set out to create and define that word.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#64

The one problem I have with solarpunk is that much of the fiction is simply not that good. I think most emblematic of that is maybe Cory Doctorow's book "Walkaway". I have lately come to accept that the book had a huge influence on me; it just keeps coming up in conversation. Well... I bring it up, because it struck a chord, and because it fits well with the conversations I have. But the writing is so.... aaaargh, so…

Reading his synopsis, all I think can think is "ugh. How boring."

And I don't agree with their hijacking of the word punk. I'm no punk but from what I've seen they aren't short on empathy.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#65
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't want to trash talk Doctorow, but I just think he missed his calling at the New Yorker or somewhere similar writing near-future short stories that were subtle critique of current issues. If we criticize Neal Stephenson for building great worlds and telling an interesting story but not being able to consistently stick the landing then I think Doctorow builds the world but can never really get a good story going.…

If you can do better, where is your writing? Doctorow has added more to my life than the whole of New Yorker, and I'm grateful.

There are entire sports' worth of armchair quarterbacks who would disagree with you

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#66

> Most importantly Solarpunk is a rejection of dystopic fears and a return to hope, not as a con-trick, but as a construct. Yeah I just don't find that to be very "punk." In cyberpunk, we have drug-addicted hackers, alienated from society. "Solarpunk," to me, sounds pretty wholesome and very much in line with the direction that society wants to go.

In 2020, being wholesome - not addicted, not acquisitive, not narcissistic, not "dark and edgy", not alienated - is the ultimate narrative taboo.

Those folks are being way too dramatic. This is not a year devoid of wholesomeness.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#67
post #14

> Most importantly Solarpunk is a rejection of dystopic fears and a return to hope, not as a con-trick, but as a construct. Yeah I just don't find that to be very "punk." In cyberpunk, we have drug-addicted hackers, alienated from society. "Solarpunk," to me, sounds pretty wholesome and very much in line with the direction that society wants to go.

> very much in line with the direction that society wants to go Or at least, he direction that society should want to go. I don't see that much conscience about climate change, renewables, energetic sustainability, resource depletion, etc, around me.

Depends where you live. In Europe it's everywhere even if it's greenwashing posing as the real thing. It's in the EU's stated political agenda, clearly discernable under Building a climate-neutral, green, fair and social Europe.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Solarpunk," to me, sounds pretty wholesome and very much in line with the direction that society wants to go. I'm not sure if you're paying attention, but current society wants capitalism and consumption until the earth has been pillaged. For instance, Joe Biden said no fracking after 2050. That's 30 years from now.

That's right, we need to end fossil fuel usage right now. If we don't switch solely to solar and wind worldwide in the next ten years there's going to be an apocalyptic ecological event. It's a climate crisis. I don't understand why people can't just follow the science. It doesn't matter how much food and energy prices would rise if fossil fuels were abruptly banned; a few poor peoples' ability to eat or stay warm is…

Fossil fuel usage will end itself once other more convenient energy sources become relevant. You can't possibly suggest leaving vulnerable people without shelter, heat or food because there's an impending apocalypse brewing. Fossil fuels be banned sounds like a quote from the nutcake realm. You're probably using ICE engines for transportation, gas and electricity for indoor lighting and heating like everybody else. Imagine if these were turned off for your own good and the survival of modern society.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2020, being wholesome - not addicted, not acquisitive, not narcissistic, not "dark and edgy", not alienated - is the ultimate narrative taboo.

Those folks are being way too dramatic. This is not a year devoid of wholesomeness.

The 2020 meme is by far the worst meme of the year (and worst meme of the decade since we've started saying $CURRENT_YEAR is bad). These are peculiar times but it's far from the end of the world. In fact it's given us some perspective and respite from modern frantic life in some aspects.
Post reply on HN